Before going into the merits of Interim Budget, I felt a very senior politician and administrator like Shri Pranab Mukherjee,who presented a couple of budgets 25 years back, has again come back and the entire country was hoping that he will come out with some solutions because in the last five years, the country has been facing an economic crisis, agricultural crisis, unprecedented inflation, price rise and in the last few months we are reeling under economic recession.Therefore,thecountry was hoping that an experienced person like Pranab Mukherjee will come out with some solutions to these challenges. There is gloom and despair all over. When there is gloom and despair, there may be a flickering of hope. But unfortunately, he has failed. His Interim Budget has failed to bring out the Indian economy from the depths of recession

If I want to use the cricketing, terminology, analogy, I felt that Pranab ji has come as a night watch man of a crumbling innings, of a crumbling team. He has not presented the Budget here as the hon. Finance Minister. He has presented the Budget as the hon. External Affairs Minister and as also having the responsibility of being in-charge of the Union Government when the hon. Prime Minister is indisposed. But we also thought that it is an opportunity for him. It is an opportunity for him to set right whatever has gone wrong in the last five years under the troika of Dr.Manmohan Singh, Shri Chidambaram and Shri Montek Singh Ahluwalia.

Actually, UPA inherited a veryu strong economy from the NDA led by shri Atal Bihari Vajpayee. They themselves have admitted this. When the first Economic Survey was presented by Shri P.Chidambaram to Parliament in July, 2004, he said in the following words:

“The economy appears to be in resilent mode in terms of growth, inflation and balance of payments, a combination that offers large scope for consolidation of growth momentum with continued macro economic stability”.

But what has happened now? What has happened after five years of UPA’s misrule and mismanagement of economy? It is only repetition of the previous performance of Manmohan Singh ji and the previous performance of Shri P.Chidambaram in his united front avatar.Actually, when we inherited five years of Manmohan Singh ji under Shri Narashima Rao and two years of Shri P.Chidambaram under UF, whatever the economic situation the NDA inherited from them was very grim.

In 1998,the economic growth had slowed down to five per cent, the agricultural growth negative, food grain production had crumbled from 199 million tones to 194 million tones, industrial production was at 4.2 percent, export performance was less than three percent and fiscal deflect was 6.1 percent. This was the situation in 1998.

1400 hours (Mr. Deputy-Speaker in the chair)

From that situation, in 2004,when they inherited the strong resilient economy of NDA under Shri Atal Bihari Vajpayee,the economy was growing at a pace of 8.52 percent,GDP had grown by more than 40 percent in the last five years-1998-2004,foreign exchange reserves were at historical high of $100 billion and inflation was around four percent. All this was despite Pokharan II, Kargil War and sanctions imposed by us. We gave them a very resilient economy, very sound economy. Unfortunately, Dr Manmohan Singh and Shri P.Chidambaram repeated their past performance of 1991 to 1996 and 1996 to 1998.

There is price rise, Let us see the inflation, the price rise in last five years. In 2004, people were getting rice at the rate of Rs 16 per kilogram and now it is Rs 36.Dal was sold at Rs 30 per kilogram, which now is costing Rs 52.They used to get any cooking oil for Rs 50 a liter, and now its price is Rs 70.The same thing is with respect wheat.

What is the answer for this price rise in this Budget? The government is saying that inflation is coming down to less than 4 percent. It is 3.7% as per the whole sale price index. I want to ask a direct question to hon. Leader of the House. What about inflation of food prices? It is still hovering at 11.7%.why is it hovering at 11.7%? What is the government doing? Why did the Government do nothing in the last five years about manging the price line, pegging the price line of essential commodities which are the succor of the common man? What happens to aam admi?

There is a huge agrarian crisis in the country. When I say agrarian crisis, I want to say with the help of records that farmers are committing suicides in huge numbers. In last 12 years,1,90,753 farmers have committed suicides in the country. The year 2004 on wards, year after year,18,241 farmers,17131 farmers,17060 farmers have commits suicides. Where have these suicides taken place?

They took place in state of Maharashtra which is under the leadership of Congress party. In the last 50 days, 47 suicides too place only in vidarbha; they took place in the state of Andhra Pradesh which is under the leadership of Congress party. They took place in Uttar Pradesh, especially Bundelkhand region.

This Government gave a debt waiver package last year. We know the results. Nothing ha s changed. Dr. Swaminathan has given a very clear recommendation. Hon. Leader of house knows about it. Dr. Swamintahtan said that the credit facilities, affordable credit, remunerative prices to the farm produce, power and irrigation, farm inputs as subsidized rates are very important. We have been pleading; we have been urging the union Government that the interest rate on farm loans should be slashed to 4%. That is recommended in the Swaminathan committee’s report. This Government appointed that committee to go into the agrarian crisis. That was one of his important recommendations. But even today the nationalized banks are giving farm loans at the rate of seven percent. Our Government in Karnataka, headed by the hon. Chief Minister B.S.Yeddiyurappa has brought it down to three percent. Another Government of ours, in Madhya Pradesh under the leadership of Shri Shivraj Singh Chauhan has slashed the interest rate on farm loans to four percent. I do not understand what this Government is doing about it apart from shedding crocodile tears about the plight of the farmers. I do not understand what the union Government, which talks about Aam Aadmi today, which talked about Garibi Hataoo years back, is doing about it.

What about the rising unemployment during these times of recession? About a year ago, in 2008 when we raised this subject in August house, the Prime Minister and the then Finance Minister said “Do not worry! The Indian economy is decoupled with world economy especially vis-à-vis the subprime crisis of the US”. They also assured the hon,House that our economy is insulated, that our fundamentals are strong, and that we need not worry, We are told that everthing was hunky-dory. But what has happened, Sir? In the last three months every sector-garments, IT, BT, construction workers , textiles , manufacturing, automobiles- there have been shut downs, there have been lay off and they are working with 10 to 20 per cent of their capacity. According to moderate estimate more than five million jobs have been lost in last three months: and there is a possibility of two crore people losing their jobs in textile alone seven lakh jobs have been lost.

What is the solution in this Interim Budget? Hon. Minister and the Leader of the opposition, Shri Pranab da had said that it is only a Vote on Account, do not have any hope. Then also, we would not have excused him, we would not have excused the Government, the country wold not have forgiven them. But they would have understood. But they came out with an Interim Budget, which is much more than a Vote on Account. What is that they have given?

I want to go into some of the important things. If at all, the UPA brought back the entire economy form 1991-1998 mess under Dr.Manmohan Singh and Shri Chidambaram, and suddenly, the Indian economy started blooming and blossoming, there were three important reasons. Firstly, investment in infrastructure- Pradhan Mantri Gram Sadak Yojana, Golden Quadrilateral, housing, more than 70 lakh houses being constructed, the communication, revolution, Sarva Shiksha Abhiyam, there was useful investment, useful expenditure with a gereat return not only to the society but to the industry. But in the last five yeats , actually tge Government’s expenditure has increased by 30 per cent, unproductive expenditure; the revenues had dipped by 10 per cent. Usually the Congress party speaks, the UPA Chairperson also speaks very high about the NREGP. Today morning also, the concerned hon.Minister has stated as to how successful NREGP is.

I want to submit before you this. What is the Central allocation for the NREGP? For the 2006-07 revised estimates (RE), the Central allocation was Rs.11,300 crore; number of districts-200; and per district allocation –Rs.56.5 crore. In 2007-09 RE, the Central allocation –Rs.12,000 crores; number of districts under NREGP-330; and per district allocation was slid down to Rs.36.4 crore.

In 2008-09, the Central allocation – Rs. 16,000 crore, number of districts under NREGP – 596, that is, all the rural districts in the country; and per district allocation – Rs. 26.8 crore. That is, from 2006-07, from Rs.56.5 crore, it has come down to Rs.26.8 crore. This is what has happened to the NREGP. This is the flagship programme- Bharat Nirman. This is one of the charters of NCMP. Regarding the unutilized funds under Rural Employment Programmes, all of us know that there are five programmes for rural employment- SGSY, SGRY, IAY, NREGA, PMGS. I am directly putting forth to the hon. Minister- I do not want to make any wild allegations- and I expect and request, through your kind self, Sir, that the Government will give answers to these questions, to the entire country.

The allocation under RE during 2006-07 for SGSY is Rs.1200 crore and the unspent balance as on 31st December 2006 is Rs.558 crore. For SGRY, the RE allocation during 2006-07 is Rs.3000 crore and the unspent balance as on 31st December 2006 is Rs.1352 crore.

For IAY, during 2006-07, the allocation was Rs.2920 crore and the unspent balance is Rs. 1334 crore. For NREGA, Rs.11300 crore was allocated and the unspent balance was Rs.4479 crore. For PMGSY, the RE allocation during 2006-07 was Rs.5476 crore and the unspent balance was Rs.2556 crore. So, out of the total allocations of Rs.23896 crore, the unspent balance was Rs.10278 crore. This is there in the 29th Report of the Standing Committee on Rural Development on Demands for Grants of 2007-08.

What about the flagship programmes, what about the investment in infrastructure and what about the capital asset formation? Why is there this lacuna? Whom are they hoodwinking?

Actually one of the charters of the Budget as well as NCMP, says ths and I will read it our for the benefit fo Shri Pranab Mukherjee. It says:

“ Providing universal access to quality basic education and health”.

How much did the provide for this? For health, instead of providing four per cent as they had planned or anticipated, they provided 0.26 per cent of Central Government expenditure as percentage of GDP. They themselves have set the record for them. It is not because of our pressure or demand; of course, we are going to demand. They themselves said this Hon. Former Finance Minister, Shri. Chidambaram, day in and out, in every Budget said that they are going to spend four per cent on GDP on health and education. How much did the spend? In 2004-05, they spent Rs.0.26 per cent; in 2005-06, it was 0.27 per cent; in 2006-07, it was 0.29 per cent; in 2007-08, it was 0.32 per cent in RE. What a dismal performance! This is about health- the budgetary allocations on health services in India.

The same is the performance regarding education. Here also, they have not crossed more than two per cent of the total GDP. They also said that they would accelerate fiscal consolidation and reforms. Let us examine how much is the fiscal consolidation? That is a very important factor.

Sir, the hon. Minister in charge of Finance has said in his Interim Budget that the fiscal deficit, actually according to his estimates it was to be 2.5 per cent but now because of recession and inflation, will be around 6 per cent. I would like to humbly remind him what my dear colleague in the other House had said. He said that the Interim Budget statement of hon. Pranab Mukherjee is like Satyam’s balance sheet which contains full fudged figures, away from truth.

Sir, a couple of days back the Prime Minister’s Economic Council, before the Minister has resented the Budget, has said and has also put on the web that the fiscal deficit will be 8 per cent. We all know Sir, if the Union Government’s fiscal deficit is 8 per cent then the State Government’s fiscal deficit will be around 3.5 to 4 per cent. That together makes the fiscal deficit of 11.5 to 12 per cent of the total GDP. If I want to remind your kind self and all the hon. Members of this.

August house as well as Shri. Pranab Mukherje, Sir, the same thing had happened in 1991. The fiscal deficit of the country unfortunately became more than 10 per cent of the GDP. Just because it became 10 per cent of the GDP, India had to mortgage its gold in international banking institutions. That was the pathetic condition. Once again this UPA Government, under the leadership of Shri. Manmohan Singh under the great guidance fo Shrimati Sonia Gandhi is taking the country to the abyss, the same situation. I feel, Sir, the fiscal deficit will not be stopping at 11.5 to 12 per cent.

He knows, Sir, that in the last five years of Shri. Chidambaram’s administration or maladministration of the economy, under the guidance of Shri. Manmohan Singh as well as Shri Montek Singh Ahluwaila, there has been non-budgetary liabilities of the Government of India. What about the oil pool account, the oil bonds? Only 40 per cent of the amount is given under the Fifth pay Commission whereas they are charging hundred per cent of income tax on the Fifth Pay Commission’s devolution but 60 per cent arrears they are going to give later. They are not going to release it now. All such things have happened. Therefore, the fiscal deficit is going to be a huge problem. I do not know how they are going to handle it because they are not bothered. Anyway, they are going out of this Government.

ANANTH KUMAR (BANGALORE SOUTH): They are not going to come back again by people’s mandate. Therefore, they are not worried or bothered.

I feel, Sir, that the UPA Government under Congress leadership and Shrimati Sonia Gandhi’s leadership is a callous and clueless Government. We reminded them. Warned and told them that global crisis is coming. You are unable to handle inflation. You are totally frittering away whatever initiatives or whatever assets Shri Vajpayee Government has created.

You are frittering away the entire fiscal consolidation. They just did not do anything for the last five years.

What has happened to our Forex reserves? Now Forex reserves are 280 billion US dollars but when the UF Government handed over the power to us in 1998, it was only 30 billion US dollars. It is because of our toil, our hard-work, our vision and our consolidation; it reached a peak of 280 billion US dollars. Now the hon. Leader of the House knows everyday we are losing one billion US dollar. Not only that, lakhs of NRIs are coming back to India because of the economic down turn in the West and in the US. As the NRIs are coming back, the NRI remittances are depleting. Not only that, we all very well know that there is trade deficit. The imports are higher than exports. When there is a trade deficit, there is no question of earning our foreign exchange through international trade. The exports are not growing at all. When NRIs are also coming back, their remittances are falling. Our forex reserves are depleting by one billion dollar per day. This is the situation under UPA.

What about the tax revenue? The hon. Minister, Shri Pranab Da who presented the Budget said that this year there will be a short fall of Rs.60,000 crore. I want to warn this Government that if the present trend continues, the shortfall will not be only Rs.60,000 crore, but the shortfall will be Rs.100,000 crore. It will be Rs.1 lakh crore. Why? It is because there is a great fall in both collection of direct and indirect taxes. I do not know why he got so misguided by his officers. I know he owns up the responsibility for this mess. But at the same time, how is it to have 5.5 per cent of fiscal deficit, next year the economy has to grow by leaps and bounds at the rate of 11 per cent? He also knows it. When the economy is slowing down at seven per cent and next year, the GDP growth may hover around five per cent, how is he going to expect 5.5 per cent of fiscal deficit? We are going towards a great crisis as a country. After four or five years of total mismanagement by a troika of Dr. Manmohan Singh, Shri Chidambaram and Shri Montek Singh Ahluwalia, here is a very experienced veteran politician who is a trouble shooter for UPA. He announced that it is an Interim Budget. The country expected that he will come out with some solutions. A flicker of hope and a ray of hope was there.

He has lost the opportunity for himself; he has lost the opportunity for the Government and he also has lost the opportunity for the nation as well. That is the most unfortunate thing.

Sir, the Satyam Corporate fraud has become a very serious matter. I want to ask a question to the hon. Minister whether it was only a corporate fraud or a fraud perpetrated by the Congress misrule in Andhra Pradesh under the leadership of Shri Y.S.Rajasekhara Reddy. There are many proofs for that. I do not know why the Government is dithering to appoint a Joint Parliamentary Committee to go into this Satyam episode. Why are the Government not ready for this? Why do they want to save the Chief Minister of Andhra Pradesh for his malpractices and corruption? Satyam is noty only a corporate fraud but Satyam is a fraud of Congress on the nation. The name is Satyam but they have done a-satyam! I want to charge the Government directly on this aspect. Many things are foing around. The state Government has allotted a road work at an estimated cost of Rs.121 crore to M/s Maytas Infra on nomination basis without calling a tender for that. The road work in Cuddapah was given away on nomination basis setting aside expert opinion. M/s. Maytas infra has taken up the Gandikota work; a 30 kilometer ling road would get submerged when the work of this project is completed. Therefore, an alternative road was required to be laid.

Dr.CHINTA MOHAN (TIRUPATI): Sir, I am on a point of order

Mr. DEPUTY-SPEAKER : What is the rule?

Dr.CHINTA MOHAN (TIRUPATI): Sir, the hon. Member is making wild allegations and accusations against my Party and others.

Mr. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: You will have to quote the rule, otherwise nothing will go on record

(Interruptions)…(Not recorded)

ANANTH KUMAR (BANGALORE SOUTH):Sir, therefore, I urge upon the hon. Leader of the House that while replying to the debate he should assure the country that they are going to appoint a Joint Parliamentary Committee to go into the entire Satyam fraud and not only that he should also assure the country that the Government will not spare anybody who is found guilty including the hon. Chief Minister of Andhra Pradesh. The investigations should go on transparently.

Sir, what is the prescription of the Government to tide over the present crisis? The prescription of the Government firstly is high interest rates. The Government wanted to wipe out liquidity; hey wanted to remove liquidity; they wanted to suck the liquidity and they have sucked the liquidity from the Indian economy to the tune of Rs.3,50,000 crore. When we were in the Government under the leadership of Atal Bihari Vajpayee we invested in infrastructure; we slashed down the interest rates from 14.5 per cent to 8 per cent and because we slashed down the interest rates, credit in the market was available at 6 per cent.

I do not understand it. They reversed the whole thing. They sucked the liquidity, they raised the interest rate to the extent of harming the common man and doubling the EMIs of aam aadmi who have purchased the television sets, the two wheelers and who have built or purchased a small house. They have all suffered. Because of this malpresciption, the country is in this situation. Therefore, I feel that ultimately, there is no hope for India under the economic misrule of UPA Government led by the Congress party, under the leadership of Dr. Manmohan Singh and the guidance of Shrimati Sonia Gandhi. We want a strong leader who can deliver, a strong and determined leadership and a decisive Government. The NDA feel and urges that the people of this country, in the ensuing Lok Sabha elections, will give the mandate to the NDA led by Shri Lal Krishna Advani who has always been described as Abhinav Sardar Vallabhai Patel. Under the Prime Ministership of Shri L.K.Advani, I think we can bring back the entire country from this economic mess. We will again do what we did under the leadership of Shri Atal Bihari Vajpayee. We will do it under the leadership of Shri.L.K.Advani at the service of the people. The UPA Government have failed miserably.

When the hon. Speaker was in the Chair yesterday before you Sir, in a fit of anger, he cursed some hon. Members that they will not return back to this august House and they will not get elected again. I pray that that cruse be fallen from the people of this country on the members of the UPA. (Interruptions) Naturally, for this misrule, people should curse you… (Interruptions) I am concluding.

Mr. DEPUTY- SPEAKER: Except the speech of Ananth Kumar, nothing should go on record.

(Interruptions)…(Not recorded)

Hathya, Athmahathya and Vishwasgath

ANANTH KUMAR (BANGALORE SOUTH): It is democracy. In democracy, we are going to the people urging them that the last five years have been hathya, athmahathya and vishwasgath. Because of terrorism, there has been hathya and there is continuing. (Hindi matter)

Therefore, I once again urge the people of this country with great humility that in the first ever opportunity, they will remove this Government from the centre and bring back NDA led by Shri L.K. Advani. Jai Hind.

STANDING COMMITTEE ON COAL AND STEEL

Fourth and Fifth Reports

ANANTH KUMAR (BANGALORE SOUTH): Sir, I beg to present the following Reports (Hindi and English versions) of the Standing Committee on Coal and Steel (2004-05):-

Fourth Report on the Action Taken by the Government on the recommendations contained in the First Report of the Standing Committee on Coal and Steel (Fourteenth Lok Sabha); and

Fifth Report on the Action Taken by the Government on the recommendations contained in the Second Report of the Standing Committee on Coal and Steel (Fourteenth Lok Sabha).

ANANTH KUMAR (BANGALORE SOUTH): You had to. You were forced to do that.
You do not have the number. You have got only 42. You should remember that sad
fact.

Sir, our hon. Prime Minister day in, day out talks of probity in
public life and he also talks of bringing the Lokpal Bill. He has said that
the Government is concerned about corruption in public life and is determined
to take the effective steps to eradicate this evil.

Sir, the charity should begin at home. When the Prime Minister holds
such a high office and when he contemplates such high ideals, he should make
himself available to such scrutiny. When in a book, namely, `King of
Corruption’ by Prof. Venkatagiri Gowda, an hon. Member of the Tenth Lok Sabha
wrote about him concerning many allegations… (Interruptions)

SHRI QAMARUL ISLAM (GULBARGA): Sir, I am on point of order. Shri Venkatagiri
Gowda is not a Member of this House now. He cannot make such a reference.

MR. CHAIRMAN (SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA): You should not refer to that.

SHRI BASAVARAJ RAYAREDDI (KOPPAL): Sir, he cannot give further reference of
that book because the matter is sub judice. … (Interruptions)

SHRI QAMARUL ISLAM (GULBARGA): The matter is pending in a court of law. The
matter is sub judice.

SHRI BASAVARAJ RAYAREDDI (KOPPAL): It is sub judice and he cannot refer to
that.

MR. CHAIRMAN: He has mentioned that he is not referring to the contents of the
book.

SHRI P. KODANDA RAMAIAH (CHITRADURGA): Sir, the court has said …

ANANTH KUMAR (BANGALORE SOUTH): I am not yielding.

SHRI C. NARAYANA SWAMY (BANGALORE NORTH): Sir, I am on a point of order.

… (Interruptions)

ANANTH KUMAR (BANGALORE SOUTH): I am not yielding. I am not referring to
the contents of the book.

MR. CHAIRMAN: The hon. Member is not yielding.

ANANTH KUMAR (BANGALORE SOUTH): I am not referring to the contents of the
book.

SHRI P. KODANDA RAMAIAH (CHITRADURGA): If he is not yielding, you may kindly
permit us. I am referring to a court order.

ANANTH KUMAR (BANGALORE SOUTH): Under what rule are they raising the
point of order?

SHRI C. NARAYANA SWAMY (BANGALORE NORTH): Sir, I am on a point of order.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Under what rule? What is your point of order?

… (Interruptions)

SHRI QAMARUL ISLAM (GULBARGA): Sir, the matter is sub judice.

ANANTH KUMAR (BANGALORE SOUTH): Sir, it is not sub judice. I can quote
from Kaul and Shakdhar’s Rule of Procedure.

SHRI C. NARAYANA SWAMY (BANGALORE NORTH): The matter is pending in a court of
law.

ANANTH KUMAR (BANGALORE SOUTH): Under what rule are you raising this
point of order?

SHRI C. NARAYANA SWAMY (BANGALORE NORTH): I am just mentioning …

SHRI BASAVARAJ RAYAREDDI (KOPPAL): The matter is sub judice.

… (Interruptions)

ANANTH KUMAR (BANGALORE SOUTH): I am not yielding; they are interrupting
me. … (Interruptions)

SHRI C. NARAYANA SWAMY (BANGALORE NORTH): Sir, kindly permit my point of
order.

ANANTH KUMAR (BANGALORE SOUTH): Under what rule are they raising this
point of order?

MR. CHAIRMAN: Please take your seat. Let him raise his point of order.

SHRI C. NARAYANA SWAMY (BANGALORE NORTH): I am on a point of order. The matter
is sub judice.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Under what rule are you raising this?

SHRI C. NARAYANA SWAMY (BANGALORE NORTH): I am coming to it.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Are you coming to the rule?

SHRI C. NARAYANA SWAMY (BANGALORE NORTH): The fact is that there was an
interim order of the court in Karnataka which had prohibited any publication
of the contents of the book.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Shri Ananth Kumar, you should not refer to the contents of the
book.

ANANTH KUMAR (BANGALORE SOUTH): I am not referring to it. Prof. K.V.
Venkatagiri Gowda, who was the hon. Member of the Tenth Lok Sabha, came out
with a book “The King of the Corruption and the Unmaking of India” containing
many allegations against our hon. Prime Minister Shri Deve Gowda. I am not
going into the allegations; I am not going into the contents of the book. But
our hon. Prime Minister, day in and day out, sermonises the country about
corruption in public life; he says that he will bring in a comprehensive Bill,
Lokpal Bill, to check corruption. I demand that the hon. Prime Minister, when
he comes here to give the reply to the debate, must make himself available to
scrutiny by a House Committee.

SHRI QAMARUL ISLAM (GULBARGA): This matter is not before the House Committee.
What a wrong demand the hon. Member is placing in this House! When it is not
before the House Committee, how can he go for scrutiny? The hon. Member cannot
speak whatever he likes. … (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: He is not referring to the contents of the book.

ANANTH KUMAR (BANGALORE SOUTH): I am not referring to the contents of the
book.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Now, the House will take up item No. 29. The subject is very much important and the whole country is concerned about it. So, I would request hon. Members to be brief and give only suggestions.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA (BANKURA): Sir, after waiting for six days, today, the discussion is being allowed on a very important subject concerning millions and millions of people of our country. About 75 per cent of our population are dependent on agriculture.

Today, we are discussing the problems being faced by the farmers in the backdrop of the agitation launched by thousands and thousands of farmers of Rajasthan. When farmers demanded adequate quantum of water for irrigation for their agricultural operations and for their crop, we saw how their agitation was brutally attacked. We would have to remember today the six farmers who were killed and who lost their lives because of police firing in Rajasthan. Ultimately, the Government of Rajasthan had to agree with the representatives of kisans and had to agree to their demands, after the agitation and struggle by thousands and thousands of peasants.

We are discussing today the issue concerning 75 per cent of the population of our country in the backdrop of WTO conditionalities. We have seen how farmers have been committing suicide for the last three to four years. Thousands and thousands of farmers have committed suicide. The farmers of Andhra Pradesh are committing suicide even today. The farmers of Kerala are also committing suicide. The cotton growers of Maharashtra and Andhra Pradesh and the farmers of Rajasthan and a number of other States are committing suicide.

DEPUTY-SPEAKER: In Punjab also.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : In Punjab also. We have read about it in the newspapers. … (Interruptions)

SHRI DUSHYANT SINGH (JHALAWAR): In West Bengal also. … (Interruptions)

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : In West Bengal, nobody has committed suicide. There is not a single incidence of suicide in West Bengal. … (Interruptions)

SHRI DUSHYANT SINGH : He went twice to Rajasthan.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : As six farmers of Rajasthan committed suicide, we will have to mention about it in the House. … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please do not disturb him. I will give time to you also.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Why have the farmers to commit suicide? During six years of NDA regime, the Quantitative Restrictions, which were there in earlier period, were completely removed and these restrictions were lifted. Nothing came to our country from agricultural product, from foodgrains to vegetables. Now, there is no restriction. When this restriction was removed in 2000, it was done in a bilateral agreement with India and the United States of America. It was not a binding on us that we have to remove the Quantitative Restrictions by 2000. Our Government could have waited up to 2003 because a number of countries belonging to the European Union agreed to extend the time for lifting of the Quantitative Restrictions. It is because of removal of Quantitative Restrictions that it has ruined the farmers of our country.

A decade has already passed after we entered into the WTO agreement. Now, we will have to review, we have to discuss what we have gained, whether our farmers have gained and whether the people of our country have gained or not. What is happening today is because of our entering into the WTO, I am not saying that we should get out of WTO, but while remaining in the WTO, if we do not think for the farmers, the poorer sections of people of our country, there would be injustice. The interests of the nation cannot be served.

Today, there is a proposal again to amend the Patents Act. This will be the third amendment. During six years of NDA regime, they amended it twice. Although many of their leaders were opposed to amending the Patents Act of 1970, but when they were in power, they amended the Act twice.

Now, we were demanding from the UPA Government to bring the Bill. Tomorrow is the last day of this Session. We are pleading with them again as to why they cannot bring a Bill and introduce it. Let it be referred to a Joint Committee or the Standing Committee.

There will be nation-wide debate on this, on some of the provisions which are there in the amending Bill, which are against the interests of the farmers and which are against the interests of the pharmaceutical industry of our country. There is a scope for improvement. But if the Ordinance is promulgated after adjournment of this Session, then there will be no scope for amending it. Immediately, it will become law and will be applicable. What is the argument of the Government? It is obligatory on the part of the Government to implement it by 1st of January, 2005. We have suggested that let it be referred to the Standing Committee. You introduce the Bill. The people of our country will be able to know the various provisions of the Bill. Let there be a debate and we can have a Special Session in the month of January for the consideration and passing of this Bill. That can be with retrospective effect as it was done in 1998. When the patent law was amended in 1998, it was done with retrospective effect from 1996. Why can it not be done in this particular case? Why is the Government not agreeing to our proposal?

What was the obligation? Our obligation should be to the people of our country, our obligation should be to the farmers of our country; our obligation should not be to the United States of America. What they will dictate, we will implement here. They have asked and they have advised us to open our doors; they advised us to lift the Quantitative Restrictions on 1,429 items and they were removed. What is happening in our country as a result of that? They are advising us to reduce the subsidy on agriculture. How much are we spending? What is the percentage of subsidy in India? How much are they spending in America? Our percentage of subsidy is only three per cent whereas in America it is 26 per cent.

What is happening to our farmers? The international price has fallen. Here, there has been an increase in the input price and a fall in the output price. Take even the production cost. The farmers have to sell their product at below the production cost. The indebtedness has increased. When the farmers in certain States decided to switch over from foodgrains cultivation to cash crops, from paddy and wheat to cotton, at that time the international price was much higher than our domestic price. When they started producing cotton, the international price has fallen and it is reduced.

For switching over from traditional cultivation to cash crops, they had to borrow money. The institutional lending, the institutional credit during the last five to six years has been reduced abnormally.

Farmers were to depend on moneylenders and because of the indebtedness of the farmers, they were not getting the price as they had to sell their products below even production cost. So, they were not in a position to repay the loan. As a result of that, farmers started committing suicides. Now, we will have to find out the ways.

The UPA Government has doubled the rural credit. Our Agriculture Minister, while replying to the debate, will tell how much money is now flowing to the farmers, how much credit is flowing to the farmer after the new credit policy is introduced by the Government of India. He may also indicate whether certain percentage of the credit which the farmers were forced to take from moneylenders, the sahukars has reduced and whether that problem has been addressed by increasing the flow of credit.

I have stated about subsidy. About import tariff, I would submit that if you lift quantitative restrictions, unless you reduce import tariff also, our market cannot be flooded with foreign agricultural products. That is why, we have seen in the past that there has been reduction in the import tariff. As a result of that, our market was gradually grabbed by multinational companies. It is so not only in the case of agricultural products but also seeds. We have a number of fertiliser units. We have seen that in the past, seven urea units were closed down. First, Gorakhpur unit was closed down. Then, Barauni unit, the only urea-manufacturing unit of Bihar, was closed down. Then, the first public sector unit, which was located in Jharkhand and inaugurated by the first Prime Minister of India in 1952, was also closed down during the last six years. It was the only urea-manufacturing unit of Jharkhand. Then, Durgapur and Haldia units of Hindustan Fertiliser Corporation were closed down. The Talcher unit of Orissa and Ramagundam unit of Andhra Pradesh were also closed down. Seven units were closed down during six years. As a result of this, the farmers of eastern States – maybe, Orissa, West Bengal and Bihar – are facing an acute crisis of fertilisers.

Today, I got a message from Uttar Pradesh that there is an acute shortage of DAP in Uttar Pradesh. This is the situation not only in one State; this is the situation in all other States in eastern region – Uttar Pradesh, Bihar, Jharkhand, West Bengal, Orissa. Sir, you know that growth in potato production in West Bengal is the highest in the country. When there was a demand for requirement of NPK for potato, not a single tonne of NPK was supplied to the farmers, the potato growers of West Bengal for 15 days.

15.00 hrs.

I had to take-up this issue with the Minister of Agriculture, and the Minister of Fertiliser. I also had to talk to the Minister of Railways to provide the required rakes. Ultimately, after 15 days, one rake reached Bankura district of West Bengal. Similar situation is prevailing in other States also. There is a great crisis of DAP.

Now, we are importing urea. Today, we are closing down our Urea Manufacturing Units, and we are forced to import urea. Last year, more than 3 million tonnes of urea was imported, and this year also urea is being imported by closing down our indigenous Urea Manufacturing Units. The price of almost all the agricultural imports whether it is fertiliser, agricultural implements, etc. has increased.

After the amendment of the Electricity Act, and after phasing-out of cross-subsidy, there will be equal tariff for both the farmers and the industrialists, and they will have to pay the same tariff for using electricity. This will affect the cost of irrigation for the farmers. In our country we have cross-subsidy. Even today, in some States, the farmers are supplied electricity free of cost for irrigation, and in certain other States, it is supplied at a much lower cost than the production cost for a mega-watt of electricity. What will happen to the farmers if the cross-subsidy is completely phased-out? How much will it add to their production-cost if they are made to pay higher tariffs?

Though the price of petrol was reduced by Rs. 1.25, yet the price of diesel was not reduced. The farmers use diesel for their pump-sets because in our country still there are more than one-lakh villages where there is no electricity, although there is a plan to achieve cent per cent electricity by 2007. Bihar is only 36 per cent electrified, which means, 64 per cent villages are not electrified. As a result of that the farmers of the 64 per cent villages are to depend on diesel.

If the diesel prices are increased, it directly hits the farmer and thereby it adds to their product cost. There has been an increase in the input cost of fertiliser implements, diesel, irrigation cess and electricity tariff, and there has not been a substantial increase in the Minimum Support Price, although the Government announced what the basis is going to be.

A Committee was constituted by the earlier Government — a high-level Committee on Long-Term Grain Policy — and that Committee very categorically recommended:

“On the recommendation of the Commission on Agricultural Costs and Prices, the Central Government should announce its MSP policy before the sowing season. CACP should be made an empowered statutory body. In recommending MSP — they should apply it only to FAQ grain — CACP should go strictly on the basis of C2 cost of production: All costs, including inputted cost of family labour, own capital, rental on land in more efficient regions. CACP should also indicate an estimate of A2+FL cost actually paid plus inputted value of the family labour in relatively high cost regions.”

I would like to know whether all these factors are being taken into consideration while deciding the MSP (Minimum Support Price). Many times, the farmers do not get even the Minimum Support Price, which is announced by the Government. The Minister had to intervene in the month of October when the cotton prices were slashed, that is, much less than the Minimum Support Price. The Cotton Corporation of India did not start procuring cotton, as the Jute of Corporation of India (JCI) does every year in the State of West Bengal; similarly, the Food Corporation of India did not start the procurement. Now, the target for paddy procurement in West Bengal is 15 lakhs. Till date, not even one lakh tonnes of paddy has been procured by the Food Corporation of India.

The Food Corporation of India should purchase paddy directly from the farmers and not through the mill owners. What is happening now is that the mill owners are purchasing paddy directly from the farmers, but they are not paying the Minimum Support Price. It is because at the time of harvesting, the small farmers sell their produce at a distress price. In order to check the distress sale, FCI should come to the market before harvesting starts so that not a single quintal of paddy is sold by the farmers at a distress price.

Sir, announcing the Minimum Support Price is not the only responsibility of the Government. It is also the responsibility of the Government to see that whatever price is announced, it includes what all the Abhijit Sen Committee recommended; farmers should get that much as minimum price. That is not happening in most of the States; that is the situation in the States.

What we are seeing from the Sixth Five-Year Plan is that the capital formation in agriculture has been gradually reducing. The deterioration started from the Fifth Five-Year Plan, and during the Ninth Five-Year Plan, there has been total stagnation.

There has not been any increase in the irrigated area. There has been total stagnation. Percentage of agriculture in GDP has also gone down year after year. Up to 1995-96 it was 1.6 per cent. It came down gradually and today it is only 1.3 per cent. Similarly, in capital formation also, plan after plan there has been deceleration or reduction.

Investment in agriculture reduced over the successive five-year plans. From 6.1 per cent in the Sixth Plan it has come down to 5.2 per cent in the Eight Plan and then to only 3.2 per cent today. Reduction in the capital formation or capital investment in agriculture has its impact on the rural employment. Out of the 37.5 crores of people engaged in the unorganised sector, 22 crore are engaged in agricultural labour. If there is a deceleration, if there is a reduction in capital formation or investment, it impacts the employment of agricultural labourers and also their wages. Unemployment in the rural sector is increasing today. A Bill was introduced yesterday in the Lok Sabha for providing at least 100 days employment to one member of each family in rural areas. This will definitely, not fully but partially, help if it is sincerely implemented in the rural areas. It will depend on the Panchayati Raj system or the State Government and there is a need for improvement also. There are some provisions which will be deterrent in implementing some of the provisions like unemployment allowance. Because this is a Central legislation, the entire responsibility is of the Central Government. Because this is in the National Common Minimum Programme and the National Common Minimum Programme is a programme of the United Progressive Alliance (UPA) which we the Left parties are supporting from outside. As this is a programme of the UPA Government, the entire responsibility for providing employment, and if they are not provided with employment then paying unemployment allowance will be the responsibility of the Central Government. It should not be entrusted to the State Government. Where will the State Governments find the money from to provide the unemployment allowance?

All this is because of the policy of liberalisation, globalisation and the WTO conditionalities.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Acharia, you have already taken more than a half hour.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Sir, this is an important issue. You should give me more time to me.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : This is my maiden speech on agriculture, Sir!

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please address the Chair. You should also conclude within five minutes.

There has been an attempt to reverse the Land Ceiling Act also in a number of States. The small and marginal farmers are being forced to give up their land for the purpose of industrialization. What we have seen is that the tribals who are living for years together in wasteland or degraded forest land were uprooted. They were uprooted because of the direction from the Supreme Court and no protection was given to the thousands and thousands of tribal farmers. I would like to suggest that in order to protect the farmers of our country, the Government should come out with a new agricultural policy, not the policy which was announced by the earlier Government three years ago in the year 2000. That policy was not in the interest of small and marginal farmers. The Government should bring an alternate agricultural policy so that the farmers of our country can be protected. They should be able to sell their produce not at a cheaper price than the production cost but at a remunerative price. We are for remunerative price.

Lifting of quantitative restrictions should also be reviewed. We will have to see whether by lifting the quantitative restrictions, it has benefited our farmers or not. Our experience has been that it has not benefited our farmers. It has benefited multinational companies. The Food Corporation of India should come to the market before the harvesting starts so that the small farmers are not forced to sell their produce at a price much lower than the minimum support price. Investment in agriculture sector should be enhanced. The subsidy given for irrigation is about Rs.27,000 crore. How much subsidy America is providing for a farmer for one hectare of land? It is 550 US dollars for one hectare of land.

How can we compete with them? In order to protect the farmers, the subsidy, which is being provided, should be increased so that the production cost of the farmers becomes cost effective.

Similarly, cross subsidy in case of electricity tariff should continue in the interest of the farmers.

Last but most importantly, there is a need for land reforms. Today also, seven per cent of the population of our country is having 30 per cent of our land. Land reforms have been mentioned in various Five-Year Plans in the objects. But during the last 57 years after Independence, land reforms have not been implemented in letter and spirit. Today, there is a huge number of landless agricultural labours in our country. But there is an experience of West Bengal of showing how a deficit State has become a surplus State today. We are not depending on the rice from Punjab or Haryana. Today, we can produce, we can feed our people and even we can supply to the other States. We are now a surplus State. It is because, in West Bengal, land reforms have been implemented. There is not a single land owner having land more than the ceiling.

Sir, whatever is distributed in our country, 25 per cent of it is being distributed through West Bengal alone. Therefore, other States should also follow this so that economy can be generated and employment potentiality can be increased in the rural areas. Thereby, we will be able to solve the problem of landless labours, who are depending on agriculture.

Sir, we sincerely hope from this Government, as it has been included in the National Common Minimum Programme also, that emphasis will be laid on agriculture, and sufficient investment will be made in agriculture sector.

I demand that this Government should bring out an alternate Agriculture Policy in consultation with various organisations of farmers, kisaans and agricultural workers. We will have to plead for the farmers who have made this country self-sufficient, although there has been a deceleration in the production in the last two years. If farmers are to commit suicide, we will all have to ponder it and we will all have to find a solution as to how we can save millions and millions of farmers of our country from poverty, from starvation and from exploitation.

By bringing an alternate Agriculture Policy based on the experience that we have gained, and by reversing the policy which was being pursued in the last one decade, we will be able to save the farmers and we will be able to save our country.

With these words, I conclude.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Now, Shri Shivraj Singh.Chouhan.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: No running commentary, please. Nothing, except hon. Member, Shri Shivraj Singh Chouhan’s speech, should be recorded.

(Interruptions) …*

Please sit down.

* Not Recorded

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Mr. Rupchand Pal, please do not disturb.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: It is in the interest of farmers.

DR. CHINTA MOHAN (TIRUPATI): Sir, The Indian National Congress brought Green Revolution in this country. When Indira Gandhi was the Prime Minister and Babu Jagjivan Ram was the Agriculture Minister, they brought Green Revolution in this country. Earlier, we used to import foodgrains. Now, we have surplus amount of foodgrains and the entire credit goes to the farmers, the Congress and the people who are working for the farmers’ progress.

Actually, there are about ten crore families who are farmers today or who are in the agricultural field. There are about 20 crore acres of dry land and ten crore acres of wet land available with us. Mainly, who is a farmer? In my opinion, a farmer is not a person sitting in the farmhouses of Delhi or Mahabalipuram or in Bangalore or Hyderabad. There are farmers in the country who have got 1500 acres of land. In my opinion they are not the real farmers. Tatas have got thousands of acres of land in Assam and at Kodaikanal in Ooty. They are not the farmers. Who is a farmer? A farmer is one who is tilling the land, sitting near the land and engaged in agricultural work. He is the actual farmer.

How many farmers are there? Eighty-five per cent of the farmers are small and marginal farmers. They have got two acres of land or five acres of land or have less than ten acres of land. Mainly, today in India, tenant farmers are there. Actually they do not have a legal right over the land, but they are the persons who are producing wheat, paddy and other things for us.

What are their actual problems? They are facing so many problems. In my opinion, they are facing six to seven important problems. One is crop loan to produce wheat, paddy, etc. A farmer needs some financial assistance. He goes to a bank. Being a tenant farmer, he does not have a legal right over the land. So, he cannot get a loan from the bank, reason being, he is only a tenant over the land. So, he goes to a moneylender. He takes money at a high rate of interest and he suffers because of this. He is not able to get an income of Rs.3000 or Rs.4000 per annum. From a wet land, he is able to get only Rs.10,000 per annum. This is the average income of an Indian farmer that he is able to get in a year.

What should the Government do to help the farmers of our country? We have Fair Price Shops under the Public Distribution System to help the families living below poverty line. In the same way, we should issue Kisan Cards to all the farmers who are actually producing the foodgrains. We should instruct the banks to give them a minimum loan of Rs.50,000 per annum to help them in their agricultural activities. I think, we can do much better if we give them financial assistance from the banks through Kisan Cards.

The next problem is of agricultural insurance. Once in three years, we are facing drought or floods in the country. So, a farmer is facing this problem once in three years. We need to give them that insurance. Private insurance companies and Government insurance companies are there. We have to see that village is taken as a unit and not an individual. A person having 5 acres of land cannot go to an insurance company, and he cannot get help from the insurance companies. There are six lakh villages in this country. They are there in an un-phased manner. We should insure these villages, and we should take a village as a unit, and try to help these farmers. This is one of the ways to help them against droughts and floods which are coming once in three years.

16.06 hrs. (Dr. Laxminarayan Pandey in the Chair)

Now, I come to subsidy. Subsidy was started by the Indian National Congress. When I was the Fertilizer Minister, I happened to see a file where Shrimati Indira Gandhi signed to give subsidy to the farmers. Fertilizer subsidy was started by Indira ji when she was the Prime Minister. We are giving a subsidy of Rs. 16, 000 crore for fertilizers. We are giving Rs. 30,000 crore in the form of subsidised electricity from the State Governments. Altogether, to farmers, to agriculture, the subsidy given is about Rs. 50,000 crore. We need to regulate this money. There are 10 crore farmer families. We are giving Rs. 50,000 crore to agriculture and farmers. If you divide this money, at least, each family will get Rs. 5,000. But, actually, this money is not going to the farmers, who are actually tilling the land; this money is going elsewhere. There are so many leaks here and there. We have to plug them, and the money should directly go to the farmers. Our Government should definitely see that the money, which we are spending on agriculture and on farmers, should go directly to the families. We should issue Kisan Cards, or whatever it is. All the benefits should go to the 10 crore families and not to the middlemen or someone who is taking the absolute advantage today.

One of the main problems that the farmer is facing is non-availability of good quality seeds. After tilling the land, when he wants seeds, he is not able to get good quality seeds. About 60 per cent of the yield depends on the quality of seed a farmer selects. Compared to other countries like China, an Indian farmer is able to produce 100 bags. A farmer in China is able to produce 300 bags. The only problem is seeds. If you give him good quality hybrid seeds, his production can get doubled. We have Agricultural Research Centres available all over the country. We should tell our scientists to produce good quality hybrid seeds, and we should give those seeds to the farmers so that they can double their produce.

The second thing is breed. The farmer is well connected to cattle, to milch animals. He feeds them with grass etc. We should give them good quality hybrid varieties of animals. Today, in Haryana, from a small milch animal, farmer is able to get 10 to 15 litres of milk, but a farmer in Orissa is not able to get even 5 litres of milk. Today, when there is so much of scientific advancement, if we give them good quality, hybrid variety of animals, they can increase their incomes, they can double their incomes and they can live happily. This is what the Government should do. We should try to give them good quality hybrid variety of breeds. Good quality animals should be given to them. ICAR is there. Scientists are to be involved in this. It must be given to them.

Another important thing is mechanisation. The old practice of tilling the land with the old methods is not going to help them. We have to give them tractors. Actually there are about six lakh villages in our country. In a village, about three to four tractors are available. Immediately after the rain stops, the farmer has to till the land. He has to plough the land within a week. If he does not do that within seven days, he will not get good yield, and the moisture inside the land will go.

He has to plough it. In a village, there are only three to four tractors. On an average, there are 500 acres of land. To plough 500 acres of land, three to four tractors are not sufficient. Each tractor costs Rs. 4 lakh. Instead of giving subsidy in the form of power, you can give subsidy on tractor. Instead of selling the tractor for Rs. 4 lakh, you can select a post-graduate or a graduate or an actual farmer who is a small-scale farmer or marginal farmer and give him a tractor for Rs. 1 lakh or Rs. 2 lakh. By doing this, his prestige will be improved. The farmer will have a prestige. He would think that the Government has directly given him a tractor and it would be helpful to the village. The farmers will get the benefit. So, the Government should definitely think of mechanizing the villages by giving them tractors directly. We are giving subsidy of Rs. 50,000 crore. If you can carve a part of it at least and give to the farmers in the village in the form of a tractor, it will go a long way.

Some people spoke about suicide deaths in Andhra Pradesh. I am from Andhra Pradesh. I know about these deaths. Actually, the problems are there. The problems are there not only in Andhra Pradesh but also in other States. Sir, even in Madhya Pradesh, in your own constituency, the problems are there. Every farmer is facing certain problems. He needs definitely support. Actually, this is all inflated. Some people just put a little bit of poison on the lips of a person who is sick and going to die, and they declare it as suicide with the help of doctors. Like that, the figure is inflated today. … (Interruptions) Sir, I am not yielding to him. … (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN : Nothing will go on record except what Dr. Chinta Mohan says.

(Interruptions) … *

DR. CHINTA MOHAN : Sir, the farmers are actually in a good shape. My friend, the hon. Chief Minister, Dr. Rajasekhara Reddy is doing very much for the farmers. The problems of the farmers are being looked at and he is trying to help them. He has done his best. The Congress Government in Andhra Pradesh, particularly the Chief Minister, is trying to improve the welfare of the farmers.

Coming to the Food Corporation of India, we have about 13½ million tonnes of rice and 18½ million tonnes of wheat in our Food Corporation godowns. The Food Corporation of India should directly go to the farmers and they should purchase the produce from them and not through a middleman. The advantage should go to the farmers. Thus, we can help the farmers.

With these few suggestions, I request the Government headed by Dr. Manmohan Singh to solve the problems of the farmers. Our leader, Shrimati Sonia Gandhi is, all the time, taking care of the problems of the farmers. I am sure that the problems of the farmers in this country will definitely be solved and our agricultural economy, rural economy will grow in leaps and bounds.

With these words, I conclude.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Now, Shri Ramji Lal Suman.

… (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: Nothing will go on record.

(Interruptions) …*

* Not Recorded

MR. CHAIRMAN: I have not permitted you. This is not right. Please take your seat. Nothing is going on record.

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MR. CHAIRMAN: Please sit down. I have not permitted you. This is very wrong. This is against the rules and procedures. Please sit down.

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MR. CHAIRMAN: This is not fair. Please sit down. Please go to your seat.

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MR. CHAIRMAN : Please go to your seat.

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MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Madhusudan Mistry, you go to your seat.

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MR. CHAIRMAN: Nothing is going on record.

(Interruptions) … *

MR. CHAIRMAN: I have not permitted you.

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MR. CHAIRMAN: Please go to your seat.

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(Interruptions) … *

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MR. CHAIRMAN: Please go to your seat.

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* Not Recorded

MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Madhusudan Mistry, you go to your seat.

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MR. CHAIRMAN: Please resume your seats.

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MR. CHAIRMAN: I have not permitted you. Nothing is going on record. Mr. Madhusudan Mistry, it is very wrong. Please take your seat first.

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MR. CHAIRMAN: I know that.

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MR. CHAIRMAN: No, I have not permitted you. I will not permit. Do not disturb him.

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MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Pawan Kumar Bansal, you are a very senior and seasoned Member. You are also in the Panel of Chairmen.

… (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: You come according to the rules.

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MR. CHAIRMAN: If I have not permitted you, if the Chairman has not permitted you, you have to sit down. Kindly sit down.

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR (BANGALORE SOUTH): The Minister is worried about farmers committing suicides in Andhra Pradesh, and he is feeling helpless.

THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION AND BROADCASTING AND MINISTER OF CULTURE (SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY): I am listening to the speaker, Shri Devendra Prasad Yadav.

MR. CHAIRMAN : You have taken too much time.

MR. CHAIRMAN : You are repeatedly saying the same thing.

16.51 hrs.

(Shri Arjun Sethi in the Chair)

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR (BANGALORE SOUTH): Hon. Chairman, I am glad that a senior politician, a veteran politician, Shri Sharad Pawar is the Agriculture Minister. He is also an important politician with political levers at his disposal both in Maharashtra and all over India through which, if he chooses, he can bring a change in the lives of millions of farmers as well as in agriculture.

My heart bleeds when I look at the figures of farmers’ suicides. Speaker after speaker has recounted this. I am now counting specific examples. In Kerala, in one District, District Wynad, 48 farmers have committed suicide. In Maharashtra, in June, July and August of 2004, 45 farmers have committed suicide. In Andhra Pradesh, between 18th May to 29th May, 80 farmers have committed suicide. In Karnataka, till today, more than a thousand farmers have committed suicide. I do not know why hon. Member Dr. Chinta Mohan has not taken this into account. From May 14, 2004 to November 30, 2004, the number of farmers who have committed suicide in Andhra Pradesh itself is 1,876. I repeat the date, 14th May, 2004. Starvation deaths have tolled 192.

My basic question to the hon. Minister of Agriculture is, while so many farmers are committing suicide, what is the action plan of the UPA Government? Does the Union Government have any action plan to prevent these suicides? What are the respective State Governments doing?

17.00 hrs.

They are giving compensation amount to the families of those farmers who have already committed suicide. I fail to understand this. Is there an action plan to prevent farmers’ suicide? I expect from the Agriculture Minister that at the time of his reply he will come out with the status report. The Union government has a duty to submit to the nation and to this Parliament a status report on farmer’s suicide. How many farmers have committed suicide in various States? What are the reasons for that? What are the preventive steps the Union Government and various States Government have initiated and what is their impact? I expect that such a status report will be placed before the Parliament.

Secondly, I was also wondering as to what is the reason for the farmers to commit suicide? At what age do they commit suicide? A farmer starts cultivating at the age of 18 to 20 years. On an average, throughout the country, farmers have committed suicide at the age of 35 to 45. What are the reasons for that? The reasons are many. They are not getting any credit. They are not getting quality inputs. They are not getting any extension services. Crop insurance has become a farce because tehsil has become a unit and the premium rate is to the tune of four per cent of the crop. Though they have sold their Mangal Sutras, their valuable ornaments and paid the premium, yet they are not getting the compensation after one year, one and a half years or two years. Even the compensation for the years 2003-2004 has not been paid till today in many of the districts and many of the States. There is utter failure of administration. There is no institutional support to them from panchyats or community. There is accumulated debt on the bank loans and private loans. They sell all their gold. They mortgage all their land. Ultimately, at the age of 35, 40 and 45 when their children are grown up, when the question of their marriage comes, they feel that there is no hope left for them. You all will appreciate how difficult it is to kill oneself. They kill themselves at the age of 35-45 years. This is the tragedy.

When Indian agriculture is prospering, these farmers are committing suicide. We have reached a record production level of more than 211 million tonnes of food grains. We have become a food surplus country. But our farmers are committing suicide. Our Agriculture Minister agrees to the fact that in our country Home Ministry, Defence Ministry, External Affairs Ministry, Finance Ministry and even the Railway Ministry are important portfolios but not the Agriculture Ministry. It is not given that political importance. I am not trying to belittle our hon. Minister. He is a very senior and veteran politician. But in the scheme of things, even at the Union level and the State level, the portfolios of Agriculture, Rural Development and Water Resources have not been given that much importance. Mr. Chairman, Sir, you yourself were the Water Resources Minister. I am not talking of this Government or that Government. I am talking of all the Governments. Agriculture Ministry has not been accorded that importance as has been given to the Home Ministry or the Finance Ministry or the various other Ministries. The same is the status of the farmers also. He does not enjoy any social status. He does not enjoy any social respect.

An engineer is respected, a doctor is respected, a politician is respected, a businessman is respected, but a farmer is looked down upon. Therefore, when we say, according to our Tenth Five-Year Plan Document, that agriculture accounts for 24.2 per cent of our GDP, agriculture accounts for livelihood to 66 per cent of our population, agriculture accounts for 57 per cent of our employment, agriculture accounts for 14 per cent of our exports, but what about the person who is turning this wheel of toil, the wheel of this great agriculture? That is the basic question.

I want to bring this to the kind notice of the hon. Agriculture Minister. I want to recount the list of the problems. He has individual problems, Government-related problems and business-related problems. His individual problems are: the farmer has no respect in the society, he has no guaranteed income or sufficient income, he has no full-time work. There is unemployment, under-employment, and most of the time because of famine, because of drought, because of floods, he has to migrate.

MR. CHAIRMAN : Please make it short.

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : There is no development. He has not purchased a new land, a new tractor a new house. He is unable to purchase a cycle, a fan, a television. He has no regular water and electricity supply. He has heavy physical work. There is no mechanization. He has no access to market information. He has no health and education facilities.

Sir, what are the Government-related problems? They are: inconsistent Agriculture Policy by the State Governments as well as the Union Government, low budget allocations, political uncertainty, no decentralisation of power, insufficient backward and forward linkages, insufficient infrastructure, lack of crop insurance, ever-dependence on monsoon.

The business-related problems are: adulterated spurious seeds and pesticides, cheating in weighing, exploitation by agents and middlemen, heavy interest on private borrowings, monopoly in business activity.

I also want to inform the hon. Agriculture Minister that agriculture has to be brought in the Constitution as a Concurrent subject. I do not know why agriculture is not a Concurrent subject. When we see this entire sphere of activity, in the Government of India, the hon. Agriculture Minister and his 14 colleagues control the fertilizer pricing, export-import policy, customs duty and excise, research, farm subsidies, assistance to natural calamities, credit through NABARD and RBI, infrastructure, MSP price fixation, procurement by FCI, CCI and NAFED, crop insurance. These come under you, Mr. Minister, and your other 14 colleagues. Whereas the State Governments have to fend with electricity, agriculture, education, irrigation, farmers’ training, revenue, marketing, cooperatives, extension and animal husbandry. But where is the coordination? Who is coordinating these entire activities? Where is the linkage?

I get the seed. I have to fight for the fertilizer, I have to fight for the manure, I have to fight for the pesticide. Then, I sow the seeds. But I have to depend on the vagaries of monsoon. After the production, I do now know where to go, to what market yard. I do not know what is the policy of the Commerce Ministry, what is its Exim policy, how much is being imported and at what rate, and how it is going to affect my produce, my crop.

Life of the entire agricultural community has become a big question mark because of lack of integration. Therefore, I may make three important demands. If we can have a separate Railway Budget, why can the hon. Agriculture Minister not come out with a separate Agriculture Budget which can reply to all these things? When 67 per cent of the population is dependent on agriculture, why should we not have a separate Agriculture Budget, which answers all these questions? It will not only create backward and forward linkages but also give an integrated approach. The agriculturists, the cultivators or the farmers will know, when the Agriculture Minister gets up and comes out with a separate Agriculture Budget, this is in for him – the entire bandwidth from Exim to MSP. I do not understand in the last so many years, why have we not come out with a separate Union Budget for agriculture.

SHRI C.K. CHANDRAPPAN (TRICHUR): Can I have a clarification, Sir?

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : I will come to you. I am not yielding.

I also feel that there is a need to include agriculture in the Concurrent List. There is no money with the State Government. My dear colleague, the hon. Member and a former Union Minister, who headed the Task Force on inter-linking of rivers, Shri Suresh Prabhu, has told me that there is no money for irrigation. I do not know, you might be having the figures. In the last 50 years 400 irrigation projects are pending. What is the total amount required to commission those projects?

MR. CHAIRMAN : They are not pending, but they are on-going projects.

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : Yes, they are on-going projects at different stages of development. In Karnataka, in Bidar district there is Taranja project for which foundation was laid by Shri Lal Bahadur Shastri and even today, after 40 years, it has not been completed. There are 400 such irrigation projects, which require an investment of Rs.40,000 crore. Where is the money? Who is going to give that money?

Lastly, I also feel that in the last 50 years various Congress Governments at the Center have not given any attention to inter-linking of rivers… (Interruptions)

SHRI S.K. KHARVENTHAN (PALANI): Why are you blaming the Congress Government? You were also in power. Why did you not do it?

MR. CHAIRMAN: Please be seated.

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : He can reply it, Sir. Is he an hon. Minister? He can definitely reply when his turn comes.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Please conclude now.

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : I am concluding my speech,

I would like to bring to his kind notice that through Pradhan Mantri Gram Sarak Yojana we tried to connect 1,86,000 villages which are unconnected, which they did not do in the last 50 years. Secondly, we also thought of introducing Kissan Credit Cards. We distributed three and a half crore cards to make farmers credit worthy.

Lastly, Sir, there is a great project of inter-linking of rivers. You know, Sir, Cauvery always is in flames between Karnataka and Tamil Nadu…. (Interruptions) I am concluding my speech, Sir. Please give me another two or three minutes.

In Cauvery, we have got 880 TMC feet of water. Because of vagaries of monsoon, at no time we cam take the water justifiably from Cauvery for both the States. There is 2,500 TMC feet of water in Krishna basin, about 10,000 TMC ft. of water in Ganga and 33,000 TMC ft. of water in Brahmaputra. Therefore, there was a great project envisaged by Shri Jawaharlal Nehru, Dr. Ambedkar, Vishveshwaraiya, Shrimati Indira Gandhi, Shri K.L. Rao, Shri Rajiv Gandhi, our present President of India, Shri Abdul Kalam as well as Shri Atal Bihari Vajpayee of inter-linking of rivers. There was a Task Force created for that. Through you, I would like to know from the hon. Agriculture Minister as to what happened to that project of transferring of water from surplus basins to deficit basins.

You may know, Sir, that the entire North India – Uttranchal, Uttar Pradesh, Bihar, Jharkhand – and entire Northeast, even Orissa and Bengal, are always influx with water. The Western India as well as the Southern India – Madhya Pradesh, Chattisgarh, Maharashtra including Vidharbha, Karnataka – are always under drought. More than 58 years of our Independence has passed. Shri Atal Bihari Vajpayee started with the vision of inter-linking of rivers. He set up a Task Force but that Task Force is in limbo. In the Mid Term Review of the UPA Government, there is no mention of Pradhan Mantri Gram Sarak Yojana. I do not know, whether they have abandoned it. Regarding farmers’ suicide there is no answer, no solution, no prevention or no corrective measure.

Therefore, before concluding, I would like to say that though agriculture is prospering, the farmer has become bankrupt and is committing suicide. We need to come out with a long-term policy, basic institutional mechanisms, like the Agriculture Budget and putting it in the Concurrent List. Some great infrastructure projects, like inter-linking of rivers, should be taken up. Then only agriculture will flourish and the Agriculture Minister will become an important Minister. Sir, there are Youth Affairs Ministry, External Affairs Ministry, Consumer Affairs Ministry, but it pains me to say that there is no Farmers Affairs Ministry…. (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: You have already pointed out all these things. Please conclude now.

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : There is no Ministry in the Union Government to look into the farmers’ affairs. Therefore, I would request that there should be an integrated Ministry looking after agriculture and farmers affairs which will look after the welfare of the farmers.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Let me bring it to the notice of the hon. Members that still there are 52 Members to speak. I request all the hon. Members to stick to their time so that we can finish it in time.

SHRI B. MAHTAB (CUTTACK): Sir, an hour back the hon. Chair announced that there were 52 Members to speak and an hour later still there are 52 Members to speak!…. (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: We will certainly try to adjust all the Members.

MR. CHAIRMAN : I compliment you on your maiden speech.

17.35 hrs.

(Shri Devendra Prasad Yadav in the Chair)

*SHRI A.K.S. VIJAYAN (NAGAPATTINAM): Hon. Chairman Sir, I would like to bring to the notice of this august House the sorry plight of farmers and the problems faced by them during this discussion under rule 193. Sir this is not the first time we raise it. It is a continuing sad tale. As a member of 13th Lok Sabha, the previous one I have witnessed these sorrowful incidents being narrated. They are going on as in a serial. As a present member of this 14th Lok Sabha, I have got yet another opportunity to highlight the problems faced by the farming community in Tamil Nadu especially in the Cauvery Delta region. I come from an agricultural background. I hail from a district which is entirely dependent on agriculture. Not much of industry there and hence cultivation is the main occupation over there.

I would like to draw your attention to the consecutive monsoon failure for the past 3 years and the gripping drought situation in all the 3 districts like Thanjavur, Thiruvaroor and Nagapattinam in the Cauvery Basin. Hon. Members who spoke ahead of me listed out the suicidal deaths of farmers in other States. It was highlighted that 6 farmers have died in Rajasthan, 15 in Punjab, 641 in Andhra Pradesh. But it is more agonising to note that none of them referred to Tamil Nadu and their lists do not include the suicidal deaths of farmers in Tamil Nadu as it is sought to be done by the State Government there. You may know the reasons for such concealing for yourself.

Thanjavur Lok Sabha constituency, Mayiladuthurrai Lok Sabha constituency and Nagapattinam Lok Sabha constituency in the Cauvery Delta region which formed part of the erstwhile Thanjavur District had seen 22 farmers committing suicide due to failure in every aspect of agricultural occupation. The official list issued by the State Government gives this much number of suicidal deaths while ignoring many such deaths of farmers that might cross even a hundred. In a village called Palaya Kottai in Mannargudi Taluk in my ________________________________________________

*Speech was originally delivered in Tamil.

constituency a 55 year old farmer called Arumugan due to consecutive crop failure and increasing debt burden. But his name has not been included in the official list of the State Administration in Tamil Nadu. Before his death he had written a letter addressed to Jayalalitha the Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu and also to the District Collector, stating that he was forced to resort to the extreme step of taking away his life due to increasing debt burden that went on for 3 years in succession. In his letter he had added that he tried to carry on with cultivation even by pledging the Thali – the Mangal Sutra of his wife. He could not redeem the jewel as he failed miserably due to monsoon failure and crop failure. As he could not bear the sight of his wife without the nuptial jewel he decided to end his life as it may not make any difference after his death. This was one among the pitiable cases of death that too in Cauvery Delta.

Traditionally the Cauvery Delta region in the Chola Mandalam remained a rice granary of the south. There is a saying that tilling of paddy was to be carried on with elephants rather than with the usual bulls and bullocks considering the plentiful growth of paddy. But cultivation has been greatly affected for the past 3 years in the Cauvery Delta region. When this traditional paddy growing region of the country has been heavily affected, the administrative mechanisms especially of the State Government could not rise up to the situation, wake up to the ground reality and come to the rescue of the Cauvery Delta farmers. The State Government led by Jayalalitha ignored the devastating situation arose out of the disastrous drought in a traditional rice bowl. When starvation deaths were highlighted by some legislative assembly members the indifferent Chief Minister Jayalalitha even resorted to ridiculing the hon. Members taking even their caste names. Such an audacity to ignore ground realities reign over there in Tamil Nadu. Indifference is not merely there. It is found here also. Because none of the members pointed out the 22 starvation deaths in Tamil Nadu which is even more in real terms. My colleagues have failed to refer to it.

When we are to talk of water for irrigation and the availability of water in Cauvery, we are to express our deep concern. Hon. Member Shri Ananth Kumar also referred to it. There is a need for a lasting solution. Inter-linking of rivers can also help save the situation. Cauvery river water tribunal was set up in 1990 by the then Prime Minister Shri V.P. Singh. Interim award from the tribunal also came. But even that interim award has not been implemented. There was a direction to this effect from the highest judicial forum of this country. But that too has been ignored for the past 3 years when monsoon too failed in our part of the country. Centre is expected to intervene positively. Due to increase in aryacuts in Karnataka the level of scarcity has also increased. Farmers of Cauvery Delta region have been hit hard by the indifference and intransigence of those who are to execute the tribunal’s award. That is why such pitiable incidents are taking place in the cauvery basin.

Our leader Dr Kalaignar Karunanidhi when he was in power took effective steps to overcome these problems and he could still make Tamil Nadu to emerge as the leading State in India in paddy cultivation. This was achieved during his eign especially between 1996 and 1999. Cauvery river water sharing problem can be solved with the inter-linking of rivers of the south. …(Interruptions)…

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : Sir, he has mentioned my name…. (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN : Shri Vijayan, are you going to yield?

SHRI A.K.S. VIJAYAN : No. I am not yielding.

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR: It is not a question of yielding. He has mentioned my name on a very sensitive issue…. (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: He is not yielding.

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : It is not a question of yielding. He has mentioned my name. I have got a right to reply.

MR. CHAIRMAN: You can do it after his speech.

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : I just take a minute. During my speech I said that in the Cauvery basin, there is only 880 TMC feet of water. The Cauvery originates from Karnataka. … (Interruptions)

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : It is a part and parcel of Karnataka. The people of Karnataka have every right to get Cauvery water…. (Interruptions) Therefore, even Karnataka needs to get justice from the Cauvery Tribunal. It is not only Tamil Nadu which has got the right but also Karnataka has every right to get water.

SHRI A.K.S. VIJAYAN : Sir, I mentioned his name only in connection with the highlighted need to go in for inter-linking of rivers. … (Interruptions

MR. CHAIRMAN : Nothing will go on record except the speech of Shir Vijayan.

(Interruptions) … *

MR. CHAIRMAN : Shri Anant Kumar, please take your seat.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI A.K.S. VIJAYAN: Sir, during his third stint as Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu Dr Kalaignar Karunanidhi took several measures to ameliorate the sufferings of the farming community. He saved the distressed farmers with free electricity for irrigation purposes. He extended several social security measures that will help the farmers especially the agricultural workers.

Some of the hon. Members during their interventions have stressed the need to ensure remunerative prices to the farmers. They must be given protection in this regard. As such farmers have no say in determining the prices for their produce. A weaver can determine the price for the product he manufactures. For instance he can fix a selling price as Rs 40 per metre and so on. Industrial units decide on prices of their products. Even manual workers like smiths determine their

* Not Recorded

remuneration for their labour. Even big companies have started selling small agricultural implements like sickles and spades. They fix huge prices and make big margins even in agricultural implements. But farmers are not in a position to determine prices on their own. Middlemen make money at the cost of the farmers and market trends determine prices and decide the future of already suffering farmers. Effective pricing mechanisms must be in place to help save the agricultural community especially poor farmers. Paddy is procured at a throwaway price. But rice made of paddy assumes enhanced price tag. Even governmental agencies are not free from it leave alone private traders who fleece farmers.

Sir, it is unfortunate that the present regime in Tamil Nadu led by Jayalalitha is neglecting the agricultural sector ignoring their needs. Timely help is not forthcoming to benefit the farming community. Tamil Nadu Government’s only achievement is in withdrawing and rolling back their own earlier draconian measures. So there is an urgent need for the Centre to intervene directly to help Cauvery delta region one of the age-old paddy cultivating regions in the country. Due to increase in ayacuts in Karnataka, cropping pattern in Thanjai Mandalam has changed vastly. So agricultural extension services have to be increased to help augment the living conditions of the farming community in the Cauvery delta.

As far as paddy procurement is concerned, when Dr Kalaignar Karunanidhi was Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu, he opened more procurement centres other than the existing ones. He even provided cartage to the agriculturists to transport paddy from the field to the storage godowns. He was considerate while the present regime has left the farmers high and dry to fend for themselves. Our leader Dr Karunanidhi even went to the extent of paying more procurement price than the minimum support price fixed by the Centre.

Chola period water systems in the Thanjai Mandalam especially in Cauvery Delta region were renovated. Desilting of canals were taken up in a big way during our leader Dr Karunanidhi’s stint as Chief Minister. He also established about 100 farmers’ direct marketing centres called Uzhavar Santhai to benefit both farmers and consumers which provided access to agricultural produce reaching the masses directly from the farmers.

But recently a 7 year old boy named Pragasam son of an agricultural worker called Chandra Sekhar died of hunger in the light of abject poverty due to failed crops and monsoon. This kind of saddening ends has become a continuing feature in the lives of Cauvery Delta farmers. Such starvation deaths are on the increase during Jayalalitha’s rule in Tamil Nadu. I would like to record it in this august House. It goes on even now.

When we take inputs the situation is far from encouraging. For instance the fertilizers like the DAP which costs Rs 650 and urea which costs Rs 350 are not available to a required level. The scarcity for such essential inputs affects farmers. It should not be in short supply. Necessary measures must be taken in this regard.

Last year a central team visited our Cauvery Delta region. It was a fact- finding team to study the drought-related problems in the Cauvery Delta. Its reports and recommendations are still under the consideration of the Centre. Last week there was another central team to visit the flood affected areas due to heavy rains in the Cauvery Delta region. In view of the disputes in water sharing and denial of needed water to Cauvery Delta farmers their miseries have increased manifold. Hence I urge upon the Centre to be liberal to Cauvery Delta farmers. You may even go for a loan waiver to the farmers of this area.

Many of the Central schemes are not reaching the needy poor. A way out must be evolved to ensure that they benefit the targeted group. Andhyodaya scheme of the Centre is not properly implemented in Tamil Nadu and the beneficiaries as I understand are made to pay Rs 250. Such is the state of affairs in Tamil Nadu where the plight of farmers and rural poor are ignored and they are rendered as neglected hapless mass.

The enemies of the farmers are not only natural calamities, pests and diseases but also the neglect of the State. I urge upon the Union Government to take special measures to save and protect Cauvery Delta farmers.

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : Sir, you told me that you would allow me to clarify my position.

The hon. Member referred to my name vis-à-vis Cauvery River basin. I want to place on record that Cauvery is the lifeline of Karnataka. Cauvery originates in Karnataka. People of Karnataka have every right on Cauvery… (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN : You have made your point. Please take your seat now.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : Sir, at the same time, I was telling in my speech that the only solution to Cauvery River dispute is, firstly, National River Water Policy. I would request the hon. Minister of Agriculture that as has been enunciated, they should come out with a National River Water Policy. There should be a dialogue… (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: Nothing will go on record now.

(Interruptions) … *

MR. CHAIRMAN: I have called Shri Anant Gudhe to speak.

… (Interruptions)

* Not Recorded

MR. CHAIRMAN: Nothing will go on record, except Shri Anant Gudhe’s speech.

18.00 hrs.

THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF DEFENCE AND MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (SHRI BIJOY HANDIQUE): Sir, what the hon. Member, Prof. Malhotra says – extending the sitting of the House up to 7 p.m. – is all right. But tomorrow, this discussion will be coming in the Rajya Sabha. The Minister will only give the reply here tomorrow.

18.01 hrs.

(Mr. Deputy-Speaker in the Chair)

SHRI C.K. CHANDRAPPAN (TRICHUR): Sir, I am happy that this House is today discussing the problems of our peasantry and the problems of our rural economy. I think there is a general agreement in the discussion about the importance of our agrarian economy.

It is a fact that the agrarian economy provides food security. It provides 60 per cent of employment and livelihood. It constitutes 30 per cent of the GDP. It helps 40 per cent of our export. It provides industrial raw materials. This itself speaks volumes about the importance of this sector, but this sector, though so important, is facing a very serious crisis. This crisis is reflected today in the agricultural sector that farmers are committing suicide. It is poverty-ridden. People are suffering from hunger, and unemployment is maximum in that area. It is in this context that some of the important aspects of the agrarian economy should be discussed.

Our National Movement realised the importance of the agrarian economy. As far back as in 1936, the Karachi Resolution of the Indian National Congress spoke about radical land reforms. Land reforms even today remain a far cry. They have been meaningfully implemented in those States where the Left came to power. Some people were asking what the Left had done for the agriculturists. We can proudly say that it is only in those States where the Left came to power that radical land reforms have been implemented, and a new life, a new future has been provided to the peasants and to the agricultural workers.

Sir, take the case of our National Movement. It was Mahatmaji who organised the peasants in Champaran from where our Minister for Rural Development is coming. It is in Champaran that the Indian peasantry learnt their importance that they can fight back the British people for the crop that they wanted to cultivate in their lands. They succeeded in that struggle.

Instead of neelam cultivation, they started cultivating food grains.

Again, today, we are discussing this problem not only of land reforms but also of remunerative prices. Remunerative prices are not at all guaranteed. Probably because remunerative prices are not offered, the peasants are committing suicide. They are in debt trap. They are not getting remunerative prices. There is no meaningful crop insurance. Cheaper and easy credit facilities are not there. Quality seeds are not available. Better irrigation facilities are not there. Reasonable subsidies are also denied to the peasants. There is no co-operative movement to help the peasantry in the manner that it should help. Unless we find solutions to some of these problems, we would not be able to find solution to the problems of agrarian India. So, we demand more subsidies to the peasants.

There are people who are against subsidies. When we entered into the WTO, the Americans, the British, the European Community, the Japanese and all others were advising us that Indian peasants should not be given any subsidy. Based on that, the Government then in power started denying subsidies one after another. Now, ignoring the WTO stipulations and ignoring the world public opinion, it is President Bush who has pushed through his farm legislation and $ 900 billion worth subsidies have been provided in America to their peasants. I do not want to go into the details. People like Rockfeller and world-renowned industrialists are getting subsidies in the name of agricultural subsidy in America. Here, on the basis of their advice, we have taken away all the subsidies, one after another. I want that electricity should be subsidised, water should be subsidised, and more subsidies should be given on fertilisers and pesticides. It is only then that we can expect the peasantry to have some consolation that they are helped in a manner that they deserve.

The Government might ask where is the money. Yesterday, it was the hon. Minister of Rural Development who introduced a Bill providing a scheme of a hundred days’ job guarantee. If you really want to implement that programme throughout the country, without confining it to 150 districts, per year, it would require no less than Rs. 40,000 crore. The Government feels that it could find that money because there is a political will that it should be done. We spend Rs. 60,000 crore for Defence. It is not that we are so rich but it is a need that we have to defend this country. So, we find that money. If we have to provide subsidy to the peasants, if we are to offer cheaper credit to them, if we are to offer such facilities so that our agrarian sector would become stronger, we might have to find some Rs. 40,000 crore to Rs. 50,000 crore. If there is a political will, I feel that we would be able to find that money.

There is a non-performing asset to the tune of Rs. 1 lakh crore. ‘Non-performing asset’ is a grand name they have given to the money that is taken away by industrial tycoons and not returned to the banks. If they could be more stringent and we could collect that money under the category of ‘non-performing asset’, it could help us in providing relief to our farmers. We also have income tax arrears amounting to Rs. 70,000 crore and the collection is so slow that we get only Rs. 3,000 crore a year. If we come to tax evasion, probably, our country stands first in the global map where tax evasion is taking place. If in this area, the Government acts with determination, we would be able to probably find money that would strengthen our agrarian economy.

So, I would like you to think on that line.

Finally, I would like to say a word about my State. I am thankful to the hon. Minister of Agriculture, Shri Sharad Pawar that he is coming to Kerala. When you come to Kerala, please call the MPs and other representatives to have a discussion about the plight of the commercial crops in Kerala. The commercial crops in Kerala are facing such a crisis that peasants are committing suicides there.

I was reading an article written by Shri Sharad Joshi wherein he mentioned about Marathi poets. I do not know about Marathi poets. I will just read a few lines from his article. I quote:

“There is a heart-rending verse by Bhartruhari, poet laureate of Vidarbha, that translates thus: A poor man goes to a burning ghat and envying the peace of a dead body lying there, requests the dead body to exchange places if only for a moment; but the shrewd corpse, knowing full well that the death is preferable to poverty, just does not budge. ”

This is written by Shri Bhartruhari, poet laureate of Vidarbha. I think, the peasants’ condition is like that that they prefer suicide rather than cultivating. The UPA Government should realise this situation and take steps so that they may create a better condition in which the peasant will hold high his head with dignity and do his work to make this country’s economy stronger.

SHRIMATI ARCHANA NAYAK (KENDRAPARA): Hon. Chairman Sir, I would place my views in Oriya.

*Today the House is discussing about a very serious issue which pertains to the problems of agriculture and agriculturists. The country is facing a serious situation and the farming community in particular is worst affected. It is thus only natural that we must discuss about this grave problem. Many hon. Members have already placed their valuable views regarding the problems of farmers. I will also do the same.

Sir, the problems of farmers are not something which concern only a particular party or the NDA or the UPA. It is a problem which concerns us all, beyond party affiliations. It is a matter that involves the common man and the whole of India. That India, 70% of whose population depends upon agriculture. The community which provides food to millions in undergoing such a pitiable condition is certainly a matter of shame and anguish. It is the irony of fate that the farming community is in such a deplorable condition in independent India where a farmer is forced to commit suicide. Sir, we should feel ashamed that while we are sitting here in this House amidst luxury and opulence, the very people who had voted us to power are languishing in poverty and squalor. There is definitely absence of a constructive mind. We should find out what went wrong with our agricultural policy. Where are we heading? We must formulate a new agricultural policy with requisite thrust to benefit the farmers in tune with a healthy democratic trend. Then only India can move ahead with optimism.

Let us do a little bit of introspection. On the one hand we say that we have adequate production of food grains and India is self-sufficient. On the other hand there is distress selling by the farmers. There is absence of a proper marketing

__________________________________________________________________*……..*Speech was originally delivered in Oriya.

facility for which the farmer is forced to sell his hard-earned produce at a much lower rate. Whether it is facility for loan, marketing or Kisan Credit Card, the poor farmers hardly get any benefit. Many high-sounding plans, programmes and schemes remains confined to paper only, never really percolates to the lower rung.

After 50 years of independence the farmer has no access to information. He does not know anything about the facilities Government has to offer. Either it is beyond the control of Government or may be the banking network is now controlled by big industrial houses. The hapless farmer is unable to avail loan. He is harassed and feels frustrated.

Sir, I want to speak particularly about my region. I belong to an area which is dominated by farmers. They are confronting a very serious problem. The Oswal Fertilizer Plant which is situated near Paradeep port in emitting poisonous gases which is adversely affecting the people of Kendrapara become unsuitable for agriculture. No step is being taken to curb this menace. Just because the group happens to have contact at the right places, it is gradually expanding business, while the poor farmer is going through hell. I have repeatedly brought this matter to the notice of this House as well as the concerned hon. Minister, but has not got any reply so far. Now I want to give some suggestions for the betterment of farmers. ..*

Sir, I want to make some suggestions. A new agricultural policy should be made and more allocation to agriculture in the Budget provision should be made. A farmers’ life security and accident insurance policy should be introduced. A farmers’ welfare commission should be set up in each State.

The next is setting up of agricultural consultation centre at district level and setting up of sufficient number of cold storage and market networking facilities which should be done.

The Government should give pension to farmers who are above 60 years of age. The Government should encourage diversification of crops. The investment in the field of agriculture should increase. The banking sector should be bound to give more credit to farmers at lowest rate of interest. In regard to crop insurance, village should be taken as a unit instead of a block. The Government should procure all the requirements under PDS from within the State itself. The Government should increase the number of agro and food processing industries. The Government should open more schools for giving diploma education in agriculture. There should be provision for water conservation.

If you would take all these measures, I think we will improve our agricultural facilities and we will solve some problems of the farmers in our State.

SHRI BHUPINDER SINGH HOODA : Sir, thank you so much.
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Now, Prof. Ramadass to speak.

SHRI VARKALA RADHAKRISHNAN (CHIRAYINKIL): Sir, if the House is adjourned at 7.00 p.m., I think, the Minister can reply only in the next session. The farmers’ issue will always be a burning issue. … (Interruptions)

SHRI N.S.V. CHITTHAN (DINDIGUL): I advocate his view. … (Interruptions)

PROF. M. RAMADASS (PONDICHERRY): Hon. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, enough has been said about the problems of Indian farmers who constitute the backbone of this country and the wheel of the social chariot of India. I would only describe the problems of the Indian farmers by saying that the Indian farmers are born in debt, live in debt and die in debt. This was the statement made 100 years ago about the Indian farmers and the Indian Five-Year Plans launched since 1951 should have erased this impression. But unfortunately, during the last 53 years, Governments have come and Governments have gone, but the problems of Indian farmers continue to last for ever.

India today has about 58 per cent of its farmers as marginal farmers whose problems are very acute. When we consider the problems of the farmers, we should grade them according to the land ownership. We have large farmers, medium farmers, small farmers and marginal farmers. There is a degree of difference in the problems faced by these people. Today, most of the problems we find among those Indian farmers who happen to own less than one hectare of land. These problems are reflected by high incidence of unemployment, under-employment, disguised unemployment, poverty and pauperisation. These are all the symbols of the problems of farmers. These problems are caused by nature, caused by man and caused by the policies of the Government. When we look at the man-made problems, we find a large number of intermediaries who are exploiting the hapless and helpless farmers of this country. When take the policy issue, the problems of Indian farmers have become accentuated only after 1991 when we launched the process of the economic reforms in this country. It is true that these problems were there but they got accentuated after 1991 because we have gone into the scheme of declining public investment in agriculture.

Now as far as nature is concerned, nature is niggardly. We get either abundant rainfall when we do not want it or we do not get rainfall when we want it. So, nature has also been niggardly. What we should do is to help the farmers for providing all the incentives that are required. … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please conclude.

PROF. M. RAMADASS : I have taken not even two minutes.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: You have taken five minutes.

PROF. M. RAMADASS : Interruptions have taken three minutes. My speech is only of two minutes.

I would only suggest that as far as monsoon is concerned, we should develop and implement drought-flood-good-weather codes as suggested by Dr. M.S. Swaminathan, designed to enhance our capacity to minimise the adverse impact of aberrant monsoon behaviour and maximise the benefits of a good monsoon.

We should build the capacity of panchayats to deal with the excess, deficient and skewed distribution of rainfall. They should become monsoon managers. The establishment of a community food security system consisting of seed, grain and water banks, provide the most effective way out of the problem.

The second important measure that we should do is to enhance the plan outlay from this year onwards. We should know that the Tenth Five Year Plan has provided only Rs. 58,937 crore, which works out to only Rs. 12,000 crore per annum, and it is not sufficient. Therefore, at least, for the remaining two years of the Tenth Five Year Plan, we should enhance the plan outlay to Rs. 20,000 crore so that we will be able to have adequate investment in agriculture, on research and extension, rural infrastructure, irrigation and also give a favourable treatment to backward and poor regions.

Now, as far as the agricultural credit is concerned, it is true that the hon. Finance Minister has told several times that he is going to double the flow of the agricultural credit, and this year he is going to give Rs. 1,05,000 crore. It is a commendable step. But what is happening at the lower level is that the marginal farmers do not get even the normal consideration from the banks and other institutions. Now, the cooperatives give 42 per cent of the total institutional credit. But this must be enhanced to 50 per cent.

Sir, I would feel that we should have a National Cooperative Bank as the apex institution in the country so that the problems of the cooperative system can also be taken up.

With regard to the remunerative prices, several experiments have been carried out by the Government. But I would urge the Government to think in terms of creation of farmers’ sales market. These sales markets may be set up in different parts of the country.

With regard to the sugarcane farmers, Maharashtra is providing a good model, and that model should be suggested to all the State Governments in the country, and we should be able to help the farmers to wriggle out of this problem.

All the subsidies, which the hon. Members have said, have also to be given. Although the share of agriculture is declining in the GDP, nearly 60 per cent to 65 per cent of the Indian community is dependent on agriculture. So, unless the agriculture is retrieved and the farmers are provided with the necessary wherewithal, India’s future is at stake. It is not only the Indian economy but also to some extent, global economy. We should not think that by globalisation and by liberalisation, we can relieve these Indian farmers. Agriculture will have to continue to be the mainstay for food, employment and productivity. We should be able to provide all the necessary help to the farmers so that they are happy, the Indian society is happy, the Indian economy is happy and everyone is happy.

DR. M. JAGANNATH (NAGAR KURNOOL): Respected Deputy-Speaker, Sir, it is a fact that 80 per cent of the people live in the rural India. It is the essence of the farming community. Mahatma Gandhi had also said that ‘it is always the strong Rural India that makes the strong urban India.’

What are the factors, which influence the farming community? They, mainly are: irrigation, water, quality seeds, quality pesticides and fertilizers, loans from the banks, private crop insurance and remunerative prices. All these factors make a healthy rural India.

But actually, what is the status of the Indian farmers in the rural areas? They do not have proper irrigation facilities and water. Spurious drugs and spurious pesticides and fertilizers are rampant in the market and they are being sold unchecked.

As regards crop insurance, it has not been taken up. Due to this, the farmers are suffering.

As regards loan assistance, be it the commercial banks, be it cooperative banks or be it the regional rural banks, they are not coming up to the expected lines. These District Co-op. banks, because of non-realization of loans, have become bankrupt and they are not in a position to lend anymore loan. Therefore, because of so many restrictions on the small and medium farmers from the commercial banks and cooperative banks, the farmers are not able to get the loan.

Here, what is the duty of the Government? Basically, they have to provide irrigation, water, good seeds, good pesticides and good fertilizers. But at present, the status of the farming community in the rural areas is desperate. They are so fear-stricken and psychologically disturbed that they are opting for suicides, not in one State or the other, but all over the country.

This should not be taken as a State issue. It should not be politicised. Time and again, in the same House, this issue has been discussed by the successive governments but without any concrete result to help the farming community by giving them remunerative price.

If the Government wishes to offer good facilities to the farming community, it should undertake major irrigation projects. Thousands of crores of rupees are being spent on major irrigation projects. As Shri Ananth Kumar has said, 440 major irrigation projects are going on for the last 40 years. I must say that the amount spent on these projects is just a debt as it has not yielded good results. In such a case, we should think of implementing smaller projects, which can give immediate results and the farmers are benefited the most.

Coming to the issue of farmers’ suicide, it is happening all over the country. In recent past, some of the States like, Andhra Pradesh, Karnataka, have figured a lot with regard to suicidal deaths of farmers. Sir, our Congress friends before elections were campaigning that 3000 farmers committed suicides. As Shri Mohan has said, if we go through the facts given in this booklet or believe in what is appearing in Papers daily, the figure given appears to be inflated. The UPA Government at the Centre is headed by the Congress Party and in the affected States also there is a Congress Party rule. So, it can inquire into and let the country know the real picture. Is it really an inflated figure? Was it not falsely campaigned that 3000 farmers committed suicides during Telugu Desam regime?

I may tell the House that during that period, Andhra Pradesh had faced four successive years of drought. The then NDA Government helped us a lot in the form of both money as well as foodgrains. Nearly 45-50 lakh MT of rice was taken to Andhra Pradesh to give succour to the farming community as well as the labourer. Employment opportunities were also provided to them.

Now, coming to the projects, various projects involving a cost of nearly Rs.10,000 crore were taken up. Projects started 30 years back during the Congress Government were also completed. About 10 lakh acres of land was brought under cultivation. What did the Congress do? In their tenure, by spending Rs.2,400 crore, it brought only 2 lakh acres of land under cultivation. I may ask the House, which is the pro-farmer Government, whether Telugu Desam or Congress. Shrimati Sonia Gandhi had visited Andhra Pradesh State in 2002 after the farmers had committed suicides. It was a good gesture and we welcomed her in the State. My question is, being in power both at the Centre and in the State, when within a span of 200 days, more than 200 farmers and 150-200 weavers committed suicides, why has she not visited the State. Is it that she had to visit the areas only before elections to give false promises so as to get elected?

SHRI S.K. KHARVENTHAN : What is the meaning of Prime Minister, Shri Manmohan Singh’s visit to the State?… (Interruptions)

DR. M. JAGANNATH : I am coming to it, Sir. Prime Minister Manmohan Singh visited Andhra Pradesh twice. The Government of Andhra Pradesh announced rupees one lakh fifty thousand out of the State fund to help farmers to come out of the situation and the Prime Minister offered only Rs.50,000 out of the Central Government fund for this. How many farmers did get the benefit out of it? I would say, only a handful of them got the benefit. On the contrary, they allege that 3000 farmers died during Telugu Desam rule. Only 600 farmers were given the benefit. Is it not a blatant untruth? People should know the reality. Why is Shrimati Sonia Gandhi not visiting the State? I do not have anything against her.

In total, 82 farmers had died. Being the head of Congress, when she went there, according to the Congress Party’s analysis as also newspaperreport, she gave relief only to 32 people… (Interruptions)

SHRI BIJOY HANDIQUE: It is absolutely irrelevant… (Interruptions)

DR. M. JAGANNATH (NAGAR KURNOOL): Why is she not going there now?… (Interruptions). The country should know that… (Interruptions). It was done to have political mileage… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: The subject is very important and we are all very much concerned. Therefore, the discussion will continue. You may continue tomorrow.

Now, the House stands adjourned to meet tomorrow, the 23rd December, 2004 at 11.00 a.m.

19.00 hrs

The Lok Sabha then adjourned till Eleven of the Clock on Thursday,

December 23, 2004/Pausa 2, 1926 (Saka).

The question is:

“That the respective supplementary sums not exceeding the amounts on Revenue Account and Capital Account shown in the third column of the Order Paper be granted to the President of India, out of the Consolidated Fund of India, to defray the charges that will come in course of payment during the year ending the 31st day of March, 2009, in respect of the heads of Demands entered in the second column thereof against Demand Nos. 1 to 12, 14 to 25, 27 to 33, 35, 38 to 62, 64 to 74, 76, 77, 79 to 95 and 97 to 105.”

THE MINISTER OF FINANCE (SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM): Of the total cash outgo of Rs. 1,05,613.38, an amount of Rs. 1,04,243.98 crore, that is, 99 per cent of the cash outgo is on 13 major items, namely, (i) Fertiliser subsidy (Rs. 38,863 crore); (ii) VI Central Pay Commission Arrears and payment of bonus due to enhance bonus ceilings (Rs. 25,929.24 crore); (iii) Farmer’s Debt Relief Fund (Rs. 15,000 crore); (iv) National Rural Employment Guarantee Scheme (Rs. 10,500 crore); (v) Additional Central Assistance including loan component, etc. (Rs. 4,296.87 crore); (vi) Food grains subsidy (Rs. 4,064 crore); … (Interruptions)

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA (BANKURA): I will not allow it. You had called me. … (Interruptions) You had called my name. … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Mr. Acharia, I had called you, but your Deputy-Leader did not allow you to speak, and the House did not allow you to speak. What can I do? You go on shouting.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM : (vii) Payment to International Monetary Fund for India’s quota increase (Rs. 2,912.67 crore); (viii) Imported Edible Oil Subsidy (Rs. 1,000 crore); (ix) contribution for the social window of South Asian Association for Regional Cooperation Fund (Rs. 598.20 crore); (x) Pass Through Assistance to Delhi Metro Rail Corporation Limited (Rs. 400 crore); (xi) settlement of pending claims of Interest subvention in respect of Rupee Export credit (Rs. 300 crore); (xii) construction of permanent shelters for Tsunami affected victims (Rs. 200 crore), and Technology Upgradation Fund Scheme, etc. (Rs. 180 crore). … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: I have called you, Mr. Acharia. What can I do? Nobody is cooperating with the Chair. I called you and everyone else.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: No, I cannot go on like this.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Now, I would like to call Mr. Ananth Kumar to speak.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: I will earnestly appeal to all. This is a very important discussion.

… (Interruptions)

HRI ANANTH KUMAR (BANGALORE SOUTH): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to speak on the Motion of Supplementary Demands for Grants (General). … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Only the speech of Mr. Ananth Kumar will be recorded.

(Interruptions)* …

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : Sir, the highlight of this Government … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: I will appeal to all that this is a very important discussion.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: I will allow you tomorrow. What can I do?

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Mr. Acharia, you are a senior Member of the House. Please allow him to speak.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Mr. Ananth Kumar, please give me one minute. I am sorry.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Please go and take your seat.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI N.N. KRISHNADAS (PALGHAT): Sir, we have a notice. … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Please go and take your seat. I appeal to you. Please do it for the sake of our old relations.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI N.N. KRISHNADAS : We have not come to the well of the House so far. … (Interruptions) This is a serious matter concerning our State. This Government is … (Interruptions)

* Not recorded.
MR. SPEAKER: Will you please go to your seat?

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: I do not know.

… (Interruptions)

You should set examples for others. I had called you, Mr. Acharia, but you could not speak one word not because of me. One word could not be heard by anybody. I found that your Deputy-Leader was more anxious to disturb you than others. I told him this also from the Chair.

… (Interruptions)

MD. SALIM (CALCUTTA – NORTH EAST): It is unfortunate. You are here to protect the rights of the Members, and not for the Government. … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: I also asked everybody and requested everybody.

… (Interruptions)

MD. SALIM : You have to ensure protecting the right of the Members to speak. The Members have the right to speak in the House. … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER : Everybody can show red-eyes to the Speaker.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA (BANKURA): Sir, I was not able to speak when you called my name in the House. … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: It is not my fault if you could not speak. Now, I have called him.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : We are in the House to raise the issues of the people. Where will we go if we are not allowed to raise it here? … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: You are most unfair.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI N.N. KRISHNADAS : This Government has not been able to control it… (Interruptions) Why are we coming here if we cannot raise it? … (Interruptions)

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to speak on the Motion of Supplementary Demands for Grants (General). … (Interruptions) The highlight of this Government in the last 4 ½ years is mismanagement. … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: You are making a mockery of this Parliament.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : They have mismanaged the economy; they have mismanaged the National security; they have mismanaged the nuclear sovereignty of the country; and they have mismanaged the entire things. Therefore, … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: I will take the Urgent Matters at the end of the day.

… (Interruptions)[r11]

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : Sir, the Motion is bound to be passed, but the present UPA Government, and I say present because the people of this country who are fed up with the economic mess created by the UPA in the last five years will ensure that the UPA is absent from the Treasury Benches in the next elections.

Yesterday, the hon. Prime Minister made a suo motu statement on the floor of the House where he informed the country through this august House that the UPA Government was fully in control of the economic situation and spoke of a series of measures this Government has taken.

Then, one is bound to ask, “Why have the markets not reacted positively to these measures?” Why is the Prime Minister himself sending out warnings like, “slowdown, downturn” to the people? … (Interruptions)

14.05 hrs.

(At this stage, Shri Brajesh Pathak and some other hon. Members came

and stood on the floor near the Table.)

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : I am sorry to say that the Prime Minister has underestimated and belittled the gravity of the economic slowdown in the country. India has felt not just the “ripple effect” of the crisis in the global financial system, but its “tidal wave effect”. The Sensitive Index (Sensex) of the Bombay Stock Exchange has fallen from the 21st floor to the 10th floor, that is, from 21,000 to 10,000. The investor wealth, measured in terms of market capitalisation of all the listed companies together has dipped to about Rs. 36.5 trillion as against close to Rs. 73 trillion on January 10 of this year, when the Sensex had scaled its lifetime high.

To think that this has not affected the investment climate in the country is to live in a fool’s paradise. To think that this has not affected jobs is to turn a blind eye to the reality.

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Ananth Kumar, if you have a written speech, you can file it.

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : Mr. Prime Minister, it is not just the loss of jobs in Jet Airways which, of course, captured the attention of the print and TV media. But look at the loss of tens of thousands of jobs in the construction industry which has seen a big slump in the past couple of months; same is the case in transportation, steel and cement. The media does not report about jobs in these sectors. The media does not report about retrenchment of contract workers. But if those in the Government, therefore, think that everything is hunky-dory, then one can only pity them.

The Index of Industrial Production (IIP) released earlier this month shows that India’s industrial growth has plummeted to 1.3 per cent in August from 10.9 per cent in the same month in 2007. In the months to come, it is likely to become negative. Hence, a large number of people in manufacturing will lose their jobs.

Should not somebody be held responsible for this simultaneous onslaught of inflation and recession on the Indian economy?

Prime Minister Dr. Manmohan Singh spent almost all his time and energy on the Indo-US Nuclear Deal. He, therefore, had no time to look at the dark clouds hovering over the Indian economy. We may not have imported any nuclear reactors from America, but India has certainly imported the crisis in America’s financial system.

Who is responsible for this crisis? Is it Dr. Manmohan Singh who is the Prime Minister of this country, Dr. Montek Singh Ahluwalia, the Deputy-Chairman of the Planning Commission or is it Shri P. Chidambaram, the Finance Minister?

We have seen a number of articles, editorials, opinions, suggestions analyzing the present scenario, but the basic fact remains that this Government was sleeping when clear indications of the crisis was evident many months ago. If the hon. Prime Minister and the Finance Minister say that these are factors beyond their control, then I clearly accuse them of misleading the nation, as they have done so many times in the recent past. … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: A very important discussion is taking place.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : This is neither a Monsoon Session nor a Winter Session; this is the last part of the Monsoon Session and the first part of the Winter Session. For the first time, in the history of India, this UPA Government has clipped the wings of democracy. … (Interruptions)

SHRI N.N. KRISHNADAS : If we are not allowed to raise the issues, then why should we come here?

MR. SPEAKER: Precisely that is the question which the people of the country are asking. I hope they are noticing how you are behaving.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : This Government is famous for taking credit for anything right that happens in the country and equally infamous for putting the blame of mismanagement and poor governance on somebody else. I am surprised that they have not taken the credit for Abhinav Bhindra’s Gold Medal in the Olympics and Sachin Tendulkar crossing 12,000 runs in test cricket. It is because in the same breath, they say that increased terrorism in the country, skyrocketing prices, failure on the agriculture front, food crisis, increased secessionism in J&K, failure to protect our borders from incursions and territory capture, all these are somebody else’s fault and due to factors beyond their control.

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Ananth Kumar, you can lay down the rest of your speech.

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : Sir, I lay down the rest of my speech on the Table of the House.

MR. SPEAKER: The speech which has been laid on the Table of the House will be recorded.[r12]

·SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : They say the current economic crisis is due to the Global meltdown – to that I ask

- Could they not see this crisis coming? The indicators were there form the time the sub-prime crisis hit the US financial sector last year.

- Could they not see that this would hit the FII’s who, as everybody knows, led the downslide in the Indian Markets?

- Could they not see that External commercial Borrowings would reduce to a trickle as financial markets abroad got tighter – this has not happened recently!!

- Could they not see that rising interest rates would hit the credit starved Industry further – it has also led to a downturn in demand – people today do not have the liquidity. They have been hit by inflation from one side and lack of liquidity on the other side.

Where is the aam-aadmi today??

- Today does the “AAM-AADMI” & his family get as much to eat as earlier?

- Today can the “AAM AADMI” afford any savings from his meager income due to the high cost of all commodities?

- Today can the “AAM –AADMI” think of borrowing money to build a House – or buy a vehicle?

- Today can the AAM AADMI send his children for shopping in the market without the fear whether they will return safely?

- Today, if he is a farmers, does “AAM-AADMI” get relief in terms of credit, relief from floods or drought;

AND WHERE IS KALAWATI TODAY? I am sure this House will be interested in knowing the plight of this lady in the present times.

Interest rates have gone through the roof-house loans were available during the NDA regime through commercial institutions as low as 7% today the same is double.

I will refer to an article written by the present Finance Minister Shri P. Chidambaram reprinted in his book: “A VIEW FROM OUTSIDE- why good economics works for everyone”.

In the section on Monetary Policy at page 100 while speaking on inflation, he has said and I quote – “Low interest rates means enormous savings to the Government. Low interest rates also mean lower lending rates, which will undoubtedly give a boost to investment and production.

He also goes on to agree with John Maynard Keynes who said: “Inflation is the form of taxation which the public find hardest to evade and even the weakest government can enforce when it can enforce nothing else”.

It is famously said – “When Rome was burning, Nero was fiddling”. The present Prime Minister and Finance Minister have done nothing better! It is an apt phrase for the UPA government. In the Mahabharata, Dharmaraja asks the venerable Bhishma, “Whether the king and his policies are responsible for the condition of the people or the prevalent circumstances are responsible”, to which Bhishma replies, “Raaja Kalasya Karanam” which means that the King is responsible for the condition the people live in.

We have seen how world leaders have come forward in their own counties and taken bold & pro-active decisions, after working jointly with the Opposition parties, in their countries to combat the financial problems that they are facing. This Government’s story was always been of – too little, too late. And also it has exhibited arrogance that reminds of Foreign Rule that India was once under.

Time & again, we have seen, during the tenure of the UPA Government, whether it is dealing with terrorism, or with secessionist movements in the Kashmir & the North-East, or dealing with the grave situations caused by flood or drought, or the current economic crises or danger posed to our sovereignty by loss of territory – as in Arunachal Pradesh. It has always exhibited its incompetence & inability and its arrogance.

The only competence they have exhibited in the recent past is when they managed to save their Government in the Confidence vote by engineering defections using all the means possible. They continue to cling to power – by hook or crook –crook sounds more appropriate!

The fear that this Government may collapse any day is a reality – otherwise they would never have called this session as the continuation of the previous one. They are afraid of facing another confidence motion knowing very well that they will not survive.

Their all DMK’s members have resigned en-mass taking the excuse of the condition of Tamil civilians in Sri Lanka were they not aware of the Human Rights Issues of Tamil earlier? Today, the Hon’ble External Affairs Minister Shri Pranabda is being sent to Sri Lanka being sent to Sri Lanka because of the crisis in UPA. The Samajwadi Party through Shri Amar Singh has already shown the love-hate relationship he has with the Congress. They have misled the House and the people of this country on the Nuclear Deal and the Left Parties left them. They have lost almost every state in which they were in power which have gone to the polls after 2004.

MR. SPEAKER: Shri B. Mahtab, have you got a written speech? If you have got a written speech, you can lay it on the Table of the House.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI B. MAHTAB (CUTTACK): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to deliberate on the Supplementary Demands for Grants in respect of the Budget (General) for 2008-09.

Yesterday, we heard with rapt attention the Prime Minister’ Statement to mention here that 28 months ago, on 20th June, 2006, the Sensex crossed 21,000 mark. Last Friday, it fell below the 10,000 mark. The prevailing sentiment in June, 2006 was greed. In October, 2008, it is fear supported by worsening economic data. After greed and fear, can hope come?

14.14 hrs.

(At this stage Shri Brajesh Rathod and some other

hon. Members went back to their seat)

14.14 hrs.

(At this stage Shri Brajesh Rathod and some other

hon. Members left the House)

SHRI B. MAHTAB : Today, the Government is truly in a fix. Neither it has funds nor there is faith in this Government. After claiming economic success and promising an extraordinarily high rate of growth for past four and a half years, this UPA Government has placed itself into a corner and has brought the country frightfully close to economic disaster.[r13]

MR. SPEAKER: Only Shri Mehtab’s statement would be recorded, nothing else

(Interruptions) … *

MR. SPEAKER: I am thankful to you for your cooperation, hon. Members.

(Interruptions) … *

* Not recorded

SHRI B. MAHTAB : Fundamentals of the national economy have been weakened to such a point where industrial growth has fallen dramatically and agriculture continues to decline. The stock market has crashed. The flawed policy of trying to beat back inflation by introducing credit squeeze and mopping up liquidity has left every sector battered and bruised. … (Interruptions) It has definitely not helped ease inflationary pressure. … (Interruptions) In June, 2006 inflation was 5.21 per cent. Rupee was traded at Rs.46.06 to a dollar. The currency touched Rs.39 in 2007 and now, it is threatening to touch Rs.50. The rupee has lost more than 19 per cent this year, the most when an acute balance of payment crisis forced the nation to pawn its gold with IMF to pay for imports in 1991.

It has been more than seven months since our country has been entangled in rising headline inflation, measured by year-on-year changes in the Wholesale Price Index (WPI). In terms of duration, the present price spiral is the longest since 2000-01.

14.17 hrs.

(At this stage, Shri Basu Deb Acharia and some other

hon. Members left the House.)

MR. SPEAKER: You are luckier than Shri Ananth Kumar, Shri Mahtab.

I am thankful to him for his cooperation.

SHRI B. MAHTAB : Banks are pulling back on lending. Jobs are scarce and commodity prices are tumbling. At this juncture monetary and fiscal authorities are no longer shy about using their ultimate weapon, that is, infinite borrowing capacity, to keep the financial system in operation. That means money is being thrown into the banking system as if there is no possible inflationary tomorrow to worry about. This is a dangerous proposition.

In theory, Government will do everything to promote price stability, no doubt, but even if you want to, you will have to move much faster to raise rates and restrict lending than you have in recent recoveries.

The question that is on everyone’s lips today is, inflation is raging; stock prices are plunging; everyone is worried. What has caused the inflation? Can it be tamed?

I am reminded of Reserve Bank of India’s first quarterly review of Monetary Policy for 2008-09 where there were a few words of caution regarding the excessive expansion of credit provided by some banks. The Central Bank, in the interest of – I quote: “overall systemic stability” called for a review of banks’ business strategies with an emphasis on credit quality. Some 11 months ago, Mr. S.S. Tarapore had warned that India may be heading towards its own home-grown sub-prime crisis. This suggestion was dismissed as alarmist by many. What do we hear from the Prime Minister yesterday? Was not there a reason to believe the evidence warranted those words of caution at that time? Three trends in the domestic credit market needs to be evaluated before the situation steps out of hand. [r14] [p15]

The first is the pace of expansion of retail credit. Non-food gross bank credit has been growing which has exposed scheduled commercial banks to the credit market. The second is, sharp increase in the retail exposure of the banking system. Personal loans that were outstanding had risen from Rs.2,56,348 crore at the end of March 2005 to Rs.4,55,503 crore at the end of March 2007. So also, housing loans, credit card outstanding, auto loans, loans against consumer durables and other personal loans. Overall, these loans amounted to more than one-quarter of non-food gross bank credit outstanding. Are we not aware that the expansion of the universe of borrowers brings in a large number with insecure jobs? A client with a reasonable income today may not earn the same income when circumstance changes. The third is, securitization of personal loans. It is reported that by November 2007, there was a little more than Rs.40,000 crore of credit that was of sub-prime quality, a default on which could trigger a banking crisis. Banking system is today exposed to sensitive sectors, like the capital, real estate and commodity markets. By the end of financial year 2007, the exposure of the scheduled commercial banks to the sensitive sectors was around a fifth of aggregate bank loans and advances. Do our banks have the wherewithal to absorb sudden losses in these high risk sectors? Was it not reported by Parthasarathi Shome in October last year, the then Economic Advisor to the Finance Minister that Indian banks have lost around $2 billion on account of the sub-prime crisis in the US? It may have been a guess, but what is the actual? Can the Finance Minister tell us?

The problem today is that economic circumstances are changing with inflation ruling high, interest rates rising and growth expected to slow down. Further a global slow down will adversely impact our export growth. The slow down will result in adverse income effects that will increase defaults on personal loans. Is it not prudent now to return to Tarapore’s words of caution and act before the situation deteriorates, a point where a US-style melt down visits India? That may require re-thinking liberalization as well. But it may be better to start now, rather than wait for failures to visit us. One may say that the current inflation is imported and fuelled by speculation; rich countries are exporting inflation to us. But what about our own undoing? They no longer wish to invest their money in manufacturing assets. Their idle funds are being used for speculation. But are we insulating ourselves from their impact? Can we fight inflation by increasing domestic interest rates or reducing domestic money supply while giving a free run to foreign money supply?

In the past one month, the RBI has cut its Cash Reserve Ratio, CRR or the money that banks need to keep with the Indian Central Bank by 250 basis points, releasing Rs.1 trillion. It has temporarily allowed commercial banks to hold 23.5 per cent of their deposits in Government bonds, instead of 25 per cent required under banking law, to generate liquidity. The interest rates on non-resident Indian deposits have gone up by 100 basis points to attract funds from overseas at a time when foreign institutional investors are pulling out of Indian equities. [p16]

[R17]

One is prompted to ask what else can RBI do, especially when it is going to review its monetary policy on 24th October? This review, I would say, has also its relevance as the Reserve Bank of India has been announcing monetary measures almost every day. Besides, at this critical juncture, RBI does not seem to have an independent voice. The former Finance Secretary of India is the RBI Governor now and nobody should grudge it. After the CRR cut, the banking system has about Rs.10,000 crore excess liquidity but banks are nervous and as individuals they are not sure how long will this liquidity last. The biggest challenge before RBI today is to address the risk aversion of banks and restore confidence in the system. Banks will start lending only when they are sure that there would not be any liquidity problem tomorrow and RBI must allow this comfort for them.

The current liquidity will not last unless the Central Bank stops selling dollars in the foreign exchange market. RBI may continue to sell dollar to protect the fall of our currency and for every dollar it sells an equivalent amount of rupee is sucked out from the system. Can the RBI convince the market that there will be more CRR cuts to make money available for the system?

It also needs to cut SLR if it wants banks to lend. RBI needs to cut the policy rate. Today, it seems RBI’s real worry is growth and financial stability not inflation. The Prime Minister has said that the financial crisis and economic slow down is likely to have an indirect impact on the Indian economy. The reluctance to tell the truth even at this juncture is rather disturbing. Is it too scary to admit or too tough to grasp?

It is depressing to see how quickly things are unravelling and how in the name of addressing the liquidity crisis, bizarre decisions which would have no impact on the immediate issue, like reopening of the participatory notes, have been taken.

Left unchecked, populist solutions would aggravate the problems at hand. Long term damage to India’s economy and image would be colossal. There is a need, therefore, for all to come together and use the crisis to initiate measures that raise not only short-term liquidity and relieve pressure on the rupee but also long-term reforms. You need to reconfirm investor confidence. That would reverse capital outflow.

I would now refer to another aspect. The Global Hunger Index reported last week that more than 200 million Indians live in hunger and that 47 per cent of Indian children are malnourished. This is despite our economy growing at eight per cent annually since 2002, three-quarter of our population lives on Rs.25 a day. These are sickening figures. India has been ranked 66th amongst 88 countries as reported by the International Food Policy Research Institute.

This taints, if not belies, India’s claim of being the fastest growing free market democracy. While the growing levels of consumerism surpass all logical levels of indulgence, there is the grim reality of abject hunger and poverty.[R18] [R19]

India is home to the largest number of hungry people today. Nutritional health indicators put India on par with sub-Saharan Africa. For a country which won freedom six decades ago, freedom from hunger still remains a chimera. Hunger is not caused by food shortage alone. Mismanagement of food reserves is the cause. Millions go to bed without food when FCI godowns are flowing with foodgrains. We have the Annapurna Yojana, the Antodaya Annya Yojana, the Food for Work and the Mid-day Meal schemes but the benefits are too few and too scarce.

As hunger is linked to the lack of purchasing power, we have policies that promote poverty and perpetuate denial and inequalities. We have a picture today of the incidence and distribution of hunger across 17 States accounting for 95 per cent of India’s population. It is not only Madhya Pradesh like States which are in the “extremely alarming” category, States like Punjab, Kerala, Andhra Pradesh are also in the “serious category”.

Over the past 15 years, economic policy has been focussed on integrating India with the rest of the world via trade liberalisation. It has been characterised with global standard of “economic freedom” meaning free markets. While it is not necessarily always undesirable, economic policy has systematically neglected the fundamental weakness of the Indian economy, which is the failure to produce food cheaply. Food remains expensive in India. The rise of the West is the sustained original revolution in the production of food. Cheaper food is the lever of riches, for it releases purchasing power and makes industry and services flourish. This Government has failed in this front also.

It is reported by Oxfam, an international agency that higher food prices have not helped small farmers in developing countries. Higher food prices mean people are eating less and lower quality food. Children are taken out of school, farmers are being forced to migrate to cities to live in slums. Women are especially vulnerable because they rarely own land and have limited access to credit. Misguided policies, unfair trade rules and poor economic advice has created a situation where big traders and super markets are growing and are gaining from price rise and small farmers and consumers are losing out.

Sir, I would now refer to the suggestion of the Comptroller and Auditor General. Very recently that report has come out which has said that Centre’s policies of deferred subsidy payments to oil and fertilizer companies are not fair and transparent. This is a very serious indignation. I would like to know whether the C&AG has asked the Finance Ministry that if it wants to subsidise loss-making companies, then it should provide the subsidy upfront rather than continuing with the fiscal indiscipline.

Issuing bonds without a provision for resources to meet future obligations actually transfers the burden to the next generation. Why make our children foot the bill for us? Is it not against inter-generational equity and financial discipline? Why not give subsidy direct treating it as a liability? You issue oil and fertilizers bonds and only pay the interest now. In 2008-09 Budget, the Finance Minister has disclosed the amount of bonds issued to fertilizer and oil companies as a foot note and not directly under the head “Expenditure”. [R20]

Recognising this that expenditure would no doubt affect the fiscal deficit, why did the Finance Minister say that oil, food and fertiliser bonds were below the line? Do you have a road map for including the subsidy in the budget?

I would conclude by saying that you may pat yourself for high economic growth but performance in human development front leaves much to be desired. When crisis strikes, trust is the leader’s only currency. Leaders at every level need to build trust everyday, not waiting for a crisis to start and then think about it. Despite receiving warning signals, in spite of sane advice, this Government thought it fit to live in a fool’s paradise. Who can save them now? The tragedy is, for their folly, the whole nation has to suffer.

ROF. M. RAMADASS (PONDICHERRY): Respected Sir, I rise to support the Supplementary Demands for Grants moved by the hon. Finance Minister. The Finance Minister has come before the House for an authorization of a sum of Rs. 2,37,287 crores and Rs. 84 lakhs towards defraying several charges which will come in the course of payment during the financial year.

I feel that the discussion on the Supplementary Demands for Grants should be confined to the justification of various items on which expenditure are to be incurred by the hon. Finance Minister. After the perusal of various items of expenditure for which the Finance Minister has asked for, the authorization of this House appears to be justified in the light of the various programmes launched by the Government in the last six months. The UPA Government has done its best to subserve the needs of the society and the needs of the growing Indian economy. Therefore, all the expenditure asked by the Finance Minister needs to be supported.

This Government, after realizing the rigors of inflation has taken timely steps. Both monetary and fiscal measures have been taken promptly by the hon Finance Minister. Even in the context of the global recession or the financial crackdown at the world level, it was the alacrity and timeliness of the Finance Minister which have saved the Indian economy. It may be true that the growth rate may slow down to some extent from the expected rate of 8.1 per cent to 7.5 per cent. But for the actions taken by the Reserve Bank of India as well as the Ministry of Finance, the situation would have become worse and the collapse would have been greater. Therefore, we must congratulate the hon. Finance Minister as well as the Reserve Bank of India for taking monetary and fiscal measures in a combined manner to save this country and set the growth rate at 7.5 per cent which can be enhanced in due course of time after the recovery takes place.

Therefore, the Supplementary Demands that have been asked for come to the rescue of the Government to carry out various programmes of social security net which is required by the poor people. For example, the National Rural Employment Guarantee Programme initiated by the Government of India has created a great impact in the rural areas today. Although the programme is beset with certain difficulties, we note that there is a rejuvenated feeling among the downtrodden and poor people in the villages that the Government is there to provide succour and relief to the people. The downtrodden and hapless people in the rural areas think that they are assured of at least Rs. 8000 per year as the purchasing power with the help of which they can live. Therefore, there is a kind of enthusiasm among the people created by the Government and it is but natural that the Finance Minister has provided an enhanced provision for the implementation of the programmes of rural [U21] development.

Another Programme which has created a great impact in the rural areas is the National Rural Health Mission, which has now tried to provide easy access to health care for the poor people, the uncared-for people, people who have never had access to a rural hospital or a primary hospital with modern facilities. Today they feel that their interests are being taken care of, thanks to the National Rural Health Mission.

Let me come to agriculture sector. Today the agriculture sector is reviving itself. The favourable monsoon condition and the various policy measures taken by the Government by the Government of India, in the form of provision of cheap and adequate credit to the farmers, the loan waiver scheme have created congenial atmosphere for the farmers and the farming community, which is now trying to increase the output. Once the output increases in the agriculture sector, it will have a soothing effect on the price level. There is no denying the fact that the price level rules very high today. But the price level after reaching a high, has now started declining. We hope that in the next four or five months price stability will be attained and the people will feel happy.

Therefore, the Finance Minister’s request for this amount may please be authorised. We must congratulate the Government as well as the hon. Prime Minister for bringing out the historic Deal with the USA, which is likely to accelerate the development of our country. With this Supplementary Demands for Grants, we hope that the Indian economy would revive. Let us congratulate the Government for bringing out this Supplementary Demands for Grants.

HRI KHARABELA SWAIN (BALASORE): Mr. Speaker, Sir thank you very much for giving me this opportunity.

Now, even though it is Supplementary Demands for Grants (General), yet since after the statement of the state of economy of the country made by the hon. Prime Minister yesterday, we did not get any opportunity to have a debate on the statement that he made. I do not think that we will get any opportunity in this truncated Session. … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: But I have not got any notice on this subject. I have not yet received any notice so far. As soon as the statement was over, I invited notices from the hon. Members. I welcome one from you also.

… (Interruptions)

THE MINISTER OF FINANCE (SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM): Shri Swain, you please give notice.

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : So, we thought that at least we grab this opportunity to make some comments on the state of the economy made by the hon. Prime Minister. … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Why not? You are entitled to it. I am sure the country would be happy to know your views on this.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Anyway, somehow, I am lucky that I got some opportunity to speak which Shri Ananth Kumarji could not get even though he spoke for some time. … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Well, I admire his valiant attempt! I am thankful to him for his cooperation and his speech will be fully recorded.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : Sir, thank you very much. … (Interruptions)

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : But we did not know what he actually spoke even though I was just sitting next to him. … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: I am sure you are also on the same wave length. But you are the `economic expert’.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Sir, he is our Chairman and I am not the Chairman. … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Some time the Leader should learn from the followers.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : I always do. … (Interruptions)

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : The hon. Prime Minister told yesterday that let us get prepared for some sort of a recession. He said that and we also know that we are going for a recession even though our economy is not that much coupled with the process of globalization of the world economy, of the economy of United States of America, but still we think that the influence, as told by the hon. Prime Minister, that ripple effect, is going to hurt India. But here lies the catch[a24] .[a25]

The Government wants to say that it has nothing to do with the process of recession; it is only the USA, it is only the world economy which is on a phase of melt down and that is only affecting our country. But what we say is that it is only because of the fiscal mismanagement of this Government. That is the major reason for the lack of liquidity in the market now. Our liquidity crisis has nothing to do with the world. The liquidity crisis which we now see is there. You can just mark it from the IIP which is an Index of Industrial Promotion which has come down to 1.8 per cent now. That is not because of the impact of the world economy or world recession. You just see why this has happened. Why I am saying is that it has happened and this Government is totally responsible for this type of an economic crisis.

The second thing is this. Since this Government has come into office, it has totally stopped the economic reforms which were very strongly taken up by the NDA Government led by Shri Atal Bihari Vajpayee. They can now say that it is the Communists who objected to them, who were standing as a road-block on the process of economic reforms. Who told them to take their help? They enjoyed the power because of the Communists. The Communists did not become Ministers. That is why, all the quota went to the Congress Party. They enjoyed it for the last four years. They will make all the enjoyment, get all the benefit and when there is any problem, then, they will say that it is because of the Communists that they could not do it. So, if they have enjoyed all the benefits, they should also try to take all the discredit that is coming out of that.

Next, take the example of the problem of inflation. Inflation is not coming down. It is still around 11.4 per cent. The Governor of the Reserve Bank told earlier that inflation beyond 5 per cent is not acceptable. He is not merely saying that it is not acceptable but it is actually not acceptable. It went up to 12 per cent, more than 12 per cent. Every week, it is coming down by 0.2/0.3 per cent or something like that. The Government is also still saying that it is happening only because of one factor…… (Interruptions)

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : It is Shri Chidambaram’s book.

MR. SPEAKER: Do not get misled! He is your leader. You have to listen to him!!

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : You thanked him so much for his just cooperating with you.… (Interruptions) This is what he said. In a layman’s language, he said that inflation is the worst form of taxation. This is what the hon. Finance Minister said. If it is the worst type of taxation, what should he do? It is above 11 per cent now. All the time, he went on just taking the credit that during his time, the GDP growth was more than 9 per cent. All the time, he accused saying: “Mr. Swain, during your time, during the time of the NDA Government, it was something like 4.8 per cent or like that.

The hon. Prime Minister said yesterday with the most pessimistic way that the GDP would come down to 7 per cent. About that also, I have strong doubt that by the end of the year whether the GDP growth will be 7 per cent or it will still be less than that. Then, who will be held responsible for that? When it was more than 9 per cent, the credit would go to the Finance Minister. When it is now less than 7 per cent, the discredit will go to America, their new friend because they have this Nuclear Treaty with them! So, the discredit will go to them. But we say that it is only because of the economic profligacy done by this Government that this is happening. What do they say? What is their achievement during the last four years? They say about two of the great things done. The first one is the NREGP. I remember what they said the day when the NREGA was passed. Even Madam Sonia Gandhi is there.[R26]

When she spoke, she did not give even a single word of credit to the Communists.

MR. SPEAKER : At least you have spared the Chair!

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : The Communists were just looking at the direction of Madam Gandhi thinking that some kind words will drop from the mouth of Madam Gandhi and they thought they would also get some credit for this programme.

MR. SPEAKER: Spare them in their absence.

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : You go through the speech made by Madam Gandhi. She said two or three times that it is only the Congress Party which has brought this programme.

THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF FINANCE AND MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (SHRI PAWAN KUMAR BANSAL): It is the Congress Party which initiated this programme.

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Yes; during the next election, please go and tell the people of this country that we have created so much of employment in this country because of NREGP and so you vote for the Congress Party. You go and tell the people like this and you will know the consequences. … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: He is in a very good mood and is smiling all the time. Please don’t disturb him.

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Sir, if there are any States which have introduced very good delivery mechanisms for this NREGP, it is only the BJP-ruled States which have done it. … (Interruptions) If you are saying Gujarat, it is also a BJP-ruled State. It is the BJP or the NDA-ruled States which have implemented this programme properly and it is their own Congress-ruled States which have failed miserably in implementing this scheme and that will be reflected in this year’s election. … (Interruptions)

Sir, now let us come to another flagship programme of this Government, which is the loan waiver. … (Interruptions)

PROF. M. RAMADASS : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to bring to the notice of Mr. Swain that the Union Territory of Puducherry has ranked first in the implementation of the NREGP and the UPA Government of Puducherry is a Congress (I) Government. It has attained the first position in the nation. So, let him not say that Congress (I)- ruled States are not implementing it properly.

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Sir, Puducherry is an urban area and what happened in Puducherry is inconsequential. If the NDA thinks that what they did in Puducherry is very good, let them take the credit.

MR. SPEAKER : Not NDA, it is UPA!

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Yes, it is UPA. I am giving them all the credit, let them take it.

Now, the second great achievement of this Government is the loan waiver for farmers! The day it was declared by the hon. Finance Minister here, the way the Congress Members started thumping the desks, I thought everything will break. … (Interruptions)

SHRI J.M. AARON RASHID (PERIYAKULAM): The loan waiver has been given to three crore farmers. … (Interruptions)

SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM : Just to jog your memory, even you walked up to me in the end, thanked me and congratulated me.

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : I never walked up to him.

MR. SPEAKER: That was a private thanks!

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Probably somebody else from our side went to him. He is an eminent lawyer, but I am very sorry that he has got such a poor memory. I never walked up to him because I knew what would be the consequences. You go to the rural areas of the country. Anybody who has repaid the loan properly asks a very simple question. He says: ‘I paid back the money. What happens to me? I did not get any benefit. It is the defaulters who got benefit out of this loan waiver. I keep the credit cooperative society alive, because of my payment the credit cooperative society is alive, but I am not getting any benefit’. … (Interruptions)

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : It is only Mr. Sharad Pawar who can understand it.

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Yes, Mr. Sharad Pawar will understand it properly.

Sir, I tell this UPA Government, I tell the Congress Party – Madam Gandhi is present here – let them go to the people and tell them that we have given a loan waiver of Rs. 60,000 crore and so please vote for us. You tell the people like this and you will understand how you will get votes. You go to the people and you will understand. You tell them about these two things, namely the NREGP and loan waiver. … (Interruptions)[R27]

The NREGP and the Loan Waiver schemes are totally failure programmes. You go to anywhere in this country, the NREGP is full of corruption. The money is being swindled away by the Government officials. There is a very strong connection between the contractors and the Government officials… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER : He is giving his view. You are not bound by it.

SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM : Sir, he has stated that NREGP is full of corruption in every part of the country. I want him to answer, is it so in Orissa also.

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : To some extent.

SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM: Just now he said it is everywhere in the country that it is full of corruption… (Interruptions)

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Please do not say because I come from Orissa.

SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM: Is it so in Gujarat also?

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Please go through my speech… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Please look at the Chair.

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : I would request them to go through my speech. The day NREGP was passed here, Shri Kalyan Singh, hon. Chairman of Committee on Rural Development is present here, probably I was the only person who objected to it. I thought that nothing would happen because this has been copied from a similar type of project that was taken up in Maharashtra in 1973.

In the report submitted by the Committee on Rural Development, in the third phase the outcome of the 1973 project that was introduced in Maharashtra was stated. I had also showed them the news report that appeared in the news papers. It has been stated that on the same day in the Yavatmal District by forging the signatures of the Collector of the District about Rs.9 crore had been swindled from this project only. I showed it to them. I told them that the same thing will happen because basically the project itself is flowed because they want that people get only the money, there should be no quality control, nobody would go through the assets that are being created, there was no provision for reviewing it and the Government has stopped all other projects.

MR. SPEAKER: The MPs are made the Chairman of the Monitoring Committee. You are also the Chairman of the Monitoring Committee.

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : MPs have become the Chairman of the Monitoring Committee, but can they go and prepare the Muster Roll?

What is happening?… (Interruptions) I will tell you what is happening. It is the contractors who are going to the rural areas and asking the people to sign there because they will get a job card. When people ask them what would they do with the job card, the contractor says that they would get Rs.20 by sitting at home. That is happening… (Interruptions) You go to the rural areas and you will come to know about that… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Please conclude now. You have taken more than 15 minutes.

SHRI A. KRISHNASWAMY (SRIPERUMBUDUR): Sir, he should come to Tamil Nadu and inspect the scheme. It is properly implemented in Tamil Nadu… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: If you want to speak, I will allow you. I have not got your name. Mr. Swain, please conclude now.

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Sir, during the rule of DMK, now the Tamil Nadu has become Ram Rajya and the people are very honest in Ram Rajya… (Interruptions) But we are talking of Ravan Rajya… (Interruptions) There are not so many honest people in my State and only in Tamil Nadu there are honest people.

MR. SPEAKER: You have made a perfectly election speech.

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Let me come to the point, Sir.

MR. SPEAKER: Yes please. Finish it in five minutes.

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Please allow me to speak for some more time.

MR. SPEAKER: You have taken 17 minutes.

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : You can pass it like that, I do not mind.

MR. SPEAKER: No, I will not pass it like this. I have called you to speak.

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Sir, there is no other speaker from my Party.

MR. SPEAKER: There are three more speakers from your Party.

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Now they have come.

MR. SPEAKER: Then I will not call other Members.

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Sir, you take the example of interest rate. Now, what the Governor of the Reserve Bank said? The Governor of the Reserve Bank said that in order to contain the inflation, we will have to increase the rate of interest so that nobody will take loan from the banks or the investment institutions.

Now what has happened? If the hon. Finance Minister or if the hon. Prime Minister are saying that the Index of Industrial Production has come down to 1.8 per cent, it is only because of the hike in the interest rate. What happened during the time of NDA rule? The rate of interest was 12.5 per cent. Mr. Yashwant Sinha was instrumental in taking it back to 6 per cent only. Is it not a credit for us? During the time of the NDA Government, when we reduced the rate of interest, even the senior citizens objected to it. They said that we kept our money in the banks and we were earning a very hafty interest; now this Government has brought it down; we were criticised. But what is happening now? This is the Government which has increased rate of interest; that is why it has affected the industrial production. The industry is not interested in taking loan. The industry is not interested for expansion. That is the reason for which the IIP is coming down and ultimately the GDP will also come down. But during our time, because we reduced the rate of interest to 6 per cent, the construction industry, the housing sector boomed. You see the expansion in the cement sector, in the steel sector. Why is it happening? It is happening because during our time we just reduced the rate of interest. I will appeal to the UPA Government that let us go for the reduction of the rate of interest so that at least there will be boom in the construction sector and there will be boom in the industry.

The hon. Finance Minister, the hon. Prime Minister always say that the fundamentals of the economy in this country are very strong. There was also East Asian crisis during 1998. At that time of the East Asian crisis, the industries were closed; there was a large-scale unemployment and things like that, and people also committed suicides by jumping into the rivers. That happened. At that time also, our fundamentals were good. But it also affected us. Now also in the United States of America and in Europe, the fundamentals of the economy are also strong but they know it pretty well that if there is a liquidity crunch, liquidity crisis, it will also affect the fundamentals. So they have taken very strong measures. The United States of America, their Congress, have taken a decision that 700 billion dollars are to be pumped into the system to provide liquidity. Take the example of Mr. Gordon Brown, the Prime Minister of UK. He has also showed very strong leadership in this regard and the United States of America is also following him. We require this type of strong leadership from India because now crisis also provides such an opportunity. India should lead the other countries because it is mostly insulated from the onslaught of global recession to an extent. That is why India should take the leadership; the Finance Minister should take leadership. He should not merely say that the fundamentals are good. Merely saying that the fundamentals are good, it will not remain good. He should go through the two-three points that I mentioned. We have not yet crossed the hump. Again you will see if some stringent measures are not taken now to revamp the economy, then the industries will close down.

You see the IT sector also. IT sector is also now going to lose much of the jobs because there is a recession and slowdown in the economy of the United States of America. There will be a pressure on the hon. Minister now to go for protectionism. That will happen. Now they will say, do not allow anything to come, any money to come.[r28]

What about the investment? Is it required or not? So, he should not go for the principle of protectionism now. He says that India will be protected from the onslaught of the economy.

It is a good thing that CRR has been reduced in order to provide liquidity in the market. For the last six years, CRR had been increased. What was the RBI doing for the last six years? It was only increasing CRR and it had gone up to nine per cent. Now, they have reduced the CRR by 200 basis points. I would request the hon. Finance Minister to bring it to five per cent as was earlier so that there will be a lot of liquidity available to the banks and the industry also will prosper because of that.

Now, the hon. Finance Minister has created a situation whereby the banks are unwilling to give loans to the oil companies. The oil companies earlier borrowed from the banks. Now, the banks are saying that they will not give loans to the oil companies. The hon. Finance Minister has given them bonds worth thousands and thousands of crores of rupees. He has not provided them through the Budget. These are all deficits. At the end of the year, you will see what is going to be the fiscal deficit of this country. You know what he has projected in his Budget and you will also know what the fiscal deficit at the end of the year is.

Sir, the hon. Finance Minister has put a lot of burden on our grandchildren and our grandchildren will have to repay it because he has not given through his Budget and he has staggered it for the future generation.

Investment should be stimulated. There should not be a cap on the deposits of NRIs. … (Interruptions) Sir, He will not understand. … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER : He has already written them off.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Now, we want more money. NRIs should be influenced to put more money in India because they know that the Indian banks are all Government banks and the Government is a guarantor for the deposits of the banks. … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Swain, please conclude.

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Sir, please give me two more minutes. I am almost at the verge of completion of my speech.

I would just request that there should be a cap on the interest rate to the NRI Deposits as LIBOR, that is, London Inter Bank Rate plus 75 basic points, and it could go up to 300 or 400 basis points.

The bank should also be allowed to give whatever interest on the NRI deposits they can.

Sir, I will just take one or two more points. The artificial constraint on the rate of interest should not be kept. This Government has taken certain decisions only in the last one week in order to provide liquidity to the system. Previously they were under the impression that nothing would happen to India and India was totally insulated. That is a very wrong premise. That is a very false premise. Due to the sluggish attitude, blasé attitude of the hon. Finance Minister, India is suffering now. Due to their profligacy in managing the economy of this country, we are suffering now.

So, the sooner this Government goes and a new Government comes, it is better for the people of this country.

MR.SPEAKER: Mr. Finance Minister, he is supporting you. Please listen to him.

MR. SPEAKER: Then, I can call the hon. Finance Minister. Does anybody else want to speak?

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: You can ask for clarifications later on. I am sure he will respond to clarifications sought. You can put questions to him later on.

SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM : Mr. Shivanna wants to lay his speech.

SHRI VARKALA RADHAKRISHNAN (CHIRAYINKIL): Sir, I want to speak.

MR. SPEAKER: He wants to speak. He seems to be a rebel like me.

HRI VARKALA RADHAKRISHNAN : Sir, I strongly oppose the Supplementary Demands for Grants (General).

I am going only by points because I do not get time. I have only a few minutes of time before me.

MR. SPEAKER: No, you will get time.

SHRI VARKALA RADHAKRISHNAN : The first point I would raise in this august House is regarding the deterioration of law and order situation in the country. We have a much worsened situation in the country. Even in the National Capital, nobody’s is life is secure. Yesterday, a Malayalee, a Keralite from Gulf country came here. He was brutally murdered. This happened in the National Capital. Not only this, some days back, we remember a journalist, while she was returning from her office to her residence, was brutally shot dead. The police could not detect the crime. So far the culprits have not been apprehended. Another Malayalee was also murdered. Not only Malayalees but all the people belonging to every State do not have the courage to live here without fear. That is the situation available in the National Capital of this country.

Now, take the case of other States. In Orissa, we have our own bitter experience. Even the basic concept of our Constitution is challenged. The minorities are being attacked. Even rape is committed against them.

SHRI BRAJA KISHORE TRIPATHY (PURI): You do not know anything. Why are you talking about Orissa?

SHRI VARKALA RADHAKRISHNAN : Let me finish please. … (Interruptions) No, I did not interfere, please. It is my right.

The law and order situation is so deteriorating.

MR. SPEAKER: He has not said anything about the Government there.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Anything under the Sun can be discussed in financial matters!

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : No, you allow that freedom to us also. This is not fair.

MR. SPEAKER: I will allow, which you never asked for. Mr. Ananth Kumar, I will see that if he crosses the line, I will pull him up.

SHRI BRAJA KISHORE TRIPATHY: The hon. Member is not aware of what has happened there.

SHRI VARKALA RADHAKRISHNAN : It is not only with the minorities in Orissa but in Assam also, the situation is very, very dangerous.

MR. SPEAKER: Now, you do not mind.

SHRI VARKALA RADHAKRISHNAN : There is international criticism. Even the Pope has intervened that the Indian Government should protect the religious minorities in the country.… (Interruptions)

SHRI BRAJA KISHORE TRIPATHY : How this Government is engaged in political conspiracy to dislodge a democratic Government, an elected Government there?

MR. SPEAKER: No, let him speak.

SHRI VARKALA RADHAKRISHNAN : This is the situation available. What is the situation in Kashmir? The situation is entirely different. Even elections could not be declared along with other States. It is a clear admission on the part of the Central Government that they could not maintain law and order situation even in a troubled State. Not only that, we will remember there were several blasts in almost all cities, like the Bangalore blast. We cannot forget it for a moment. Even in the National Capital, a series of bomb blast took place. Our Intelligence Department and our Intelligence agencies were keeping silent. They could not find out the reason. This is the situation available. It is unheard of in the history of India that people are brutally murdered and blasts are taking place in every part of the country. It is not only in the National Capital but also even in Bangalore, Mumbai and in so many other cities, this is being repeated. We do not know how it has taken place. So, I am also afraid that even if I walk in the morning, I do not know whether I will return safely.

MR. SPEAKER: No, you must. Let me know your route you take. I will see that the police are there.

SHRI VARKALA RADHAKRISHNAN : This is the situation I must tell you. It is a very, very pathetic situation.[m30]

The Ministry of Law and Justice as well as the Ministry of Home Affairs have failed in every way. The hon. Minister of Home Affairs is not present in the House. The situation is so deteriorating that our credit, our national reputation is at a low level. Even the basic principles or the basic concepts of the Constitution have been challenged and we are not able to face the international community with courage. We cannot claim to be the heirs of our Father of the Nation, Mahatma Gandhi. … (Interruptions) The United Nations took the courage of observing his birthday, 2nd October as a day of peace. What happened in our country? … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER : It is International Day of Non-Violence.

SHRI VARKALA RADHAKRISHNAN : Even on that day, on the birthday of Mahatma Gandhi there were blasts in our country. What a pitiable situation is this? Can the hon. Minister of Home Affairs claim any remedy? No. This is the situation.

I am really very much worried. When I participate in this general discussion I am very much worried. In the history of our country, for the first time a Chief Minister of a State is coming here and offering ‘dharna’ in front of the Parliament. For what purpose was it? We are living in a federal State. There must be healthy relations between the States and the Centre. What happened? What prompted the Chief Minister to come over here and offer Satyagraha? … (Interruptions)

SHRI J.M. AARON RASHID : Sir, what is this? … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER : Please do not do this. Why are you doing it? You must respect – a Chief Minister has come here. You may agree with him or you may not agree. You try to respect.

SHRI VARKALA RADHAKRISHNAN : Sir, we will have to observe certain Centre-State relations and norms.

Sir, Kerala State is a deficit State in the matter of food supplies. Even during Nehru’s time and long before that when the States were merged, there was an understanding between the Central Government and the State Government that Kerala being a deficit State, rice will be supplied at the prescribed rates. Kerala is the only State where the public distribution system was maintained effectively. And that system has failed. The Central Govt. refused to give the allotted quota. At the same time, in the Central pool there is sufficient quantity of rice. But they did not part with the allotted quota of rice to the people of Kerala and put them to starvation.

Even the public distribution system has failed in the State because of the wrong policy of the Central Government. The BPL system is also completely wrongly calculated and they refused to give ration to some 30 lakh of people who were getting ration supplies. All of them are going to the open market paying huge sums as price for the rice. This situation has developed because of the wrong policy of the Central Government and the refusal of the Central Government to supply the required quantity of rice.

Now, I come to the power supply. Kerala is a State, with water reservoirs, is having power supply from hydro electric schemes. The South-West monsoon was a complete failure so far as Kerala State is concerned. The North-East monsoon also has failed. Because of the failure of the monsoon all the electric projects in the State have failed. There is no sufficient quantity of water in the reservoirs. The power production has deteriorated to a considerable extent.

Sir, Kerala has already introduced load-shedding. But still it is thriving on. This Government is not having a human heart. They have mercilessly refused to supply electricity and rice to the Kerala State. It was not only in supply of rice but even in power supply these * people … (Interruptions) They refused power supply.

MR. SPEAKER : These words will be deleted. You did not mean it, I am sure.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI VARKALA RADHAKRISHNAN : That reference was to an institution which is parliamentary. It is parliamentary. … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER : You do not like them. You say that.

SHRI VARKALA RADHAKRISHNAN : I was not using that with reference to a particular individual.

MR. SPEAKER : Okay.

SHRI VARKALA RADHAKRISHNAN : I am using it for an institution. … (Interruptions)[k31]

MR. SPEAKER: But you know that you have to accept the ruling of the Chair.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: You know that very well. You have been the former Speaker.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Unfortunately, the former Speaker does not listen to the present Speaker.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI VARKALA RADHAKRISHNAN : Sir, the entire Cabinet came here, and even the Members of the Ruling Party came here. … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: I am trying to speak in your favour. Therefore, please wait for one minute. Could you kindly give a little thought to the present Speaker?

* Not recorded.

I am sure that when the Chief Minister of a particular State has come to Delhi for a dharna, the Government of India will no doubt give proper attention to it.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Please listen to me. I am saying in your favour only, and you are interrupting me. Kindly ask your colleagues and Comrades sitting there.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Would you listen? Can you listen to me?

SHRI VARKALA RADHAKRISHNAN : I will …

MR. SPEAKER: Can you listen to me?

SHRI VARKALA RADHAKRISHNAN : Now, I am listening to you.

MR. SPEAKER: Very well. Please wait for half-a-minute, and give me a little opportunity to speak. I said that when the hon. Chief Minister of a particular State comes to the capital and sits on a dharna, then obviously it is a matter of importance. I am sure that the Central Government will look into it. I have said it in your favour only.

SHRI VARKALA RADHAKRISHNAN : Now, shall I continue?

MR. SPEAKER: You can speak for two more minutes.

SHRI VARKALA RADHAKRISHNAN : There is no doubt that the law and order situation is entirely the State subject. … (Interruptions)

SHRI T.K. HAMZA (MANJERI): It has totally failed.

SHRI VARKALA RADHAKRISHNAN : But the framers of our Constitution did not contemplate a situation wherein the Central crimes will be so predominant and prevalent in the country.

Now, we are faced with this danger caused by the extremists. Therefore, it is high time for us to find some way out to define the Central crime, if necessary, by an amendment and define the Central crime and deal with the situation. The extremists are provided with the most modern weapons, and the State Police is quite incompetent to deal with the situation. But that should not lead to taking away and encroaching upon the powers of the State. Definitely, the powers should primarily be vested with the State Government as they are the people who are responsible for the law and order situation in a particular State.

We must have an arrangement so far as the National crimes are concerned and so far as Central crimes are concerned in the matter of dealing with the international terrorist movement, so that we can deal with the situation effectively.

MR. SPEAKER: You want a federal law.

SHRI VARKALA RADHAKRISHNAN : This cannot be done until and unless they prevent these steps. Otherwise, the danger that we are facing will continue. With these words, I strongly oppose the Demands for Grants.

SHRI M.SHIVANNA (CHAMARAJANAGAR): Sir, while supporting the Supplementary Demands for Grants (General) 2008-2009, I would like to add certain points.

First of all, I congratulate the Hon. Prime Minister Shri Manmohan Singh Ji for his success in getting through the Indo-US Nuclear Deal. As a result of it, India, after 34 years, will get Nuclear fuel and technology from the US, Russia and other countries.

I would also like to congratulate the Hon. Health Minister Shri A.Ramdoss for banning smoking in public places all over the country. However this ban of smoking had been already enforced by the Hon. Railway Minister Shri Lalu Prasad Ji in all the trains and railway stations. I am very much thankful to him also.

Coming to the Supplementary Demands for Grants, on flood relief, let me add. A central team visited flood hit areas as well as drought affected areas of Karnataka. We sent a memorandum to the Union Government seeking financial assistance to take up relief measures for drought. But so far no grant has been provided to Karnataka.

I would like to make another point regarding power situation in Karnataka which is critical. Farmers are getting bare minimum power for agriculture. In urban areas loadshedding has become common. Industries, Software companies are severely affected due to power crisis. Therefore, the Centre should provide more power to Karnataka from the Central Power Grid. I would like to suggest that Centre should come forward to set up a Hydro Power Project at Mekedatu near Kanakapura in Karnataka.

Another thing is transportation problems in Karnataka. It has reached its peak. During the last three months more than 60 persons have last their lives in

*English translation of the speech originally laid on the Table in Kannada

road accidents at Devanahally airport alone. Metro Railway work is going at a very slow pace it may take another 8 years to complete if it goes on this way. Therefore the Government of India should provide sufficient funds to Karnataka to take up the construction of under bridges, over bridges and fly over bridges so that transportation problem can be solved.

I would like to condemn the terrorist activities taking place allover the country particularly in Bangalore, Ahmedabad, Delhi etc. Many innocent people have lost their lives. This is a heinous crime. Therefore I urge upon the Home Minister to take stringent steps to curb such incidents with immediate effect.

Recession is seen on all over the world. Hon. Prime Minister says that Bank deposits are safe. I hope the Government would take further steps to overcome the financial crisis. With this I conclude my speech.

MR. SPEAKER: Now, the hon. Finance Minister.

SHRI TAPIR GAO (ARUNACHAL EAST): Sir, I would request you to give me one minute to speak.

MR. SPEAKER: You can ask a good clarification for two minutes later on.

SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am grateful to the hon. Members who have participated in the discussion on the Supplementary Demands for Grants.

It is true that we have come with a demand for a large sum of money. It is not the amount of money that should get your attention. You should ask this question. Why are we coming to this House, and under what head are we asking for this money? Perhaps, the opening statement made by me was not audible to most Members. Out of the Cash Outgo of Rs. 1,05,613 crore, 38,863 crore is being provided by way of cash towards fertilizer subsidy.[r32] [r33] Is that right or wrong? Is anyone here opposing that fertiliser must be subsidized? If I do not provide Rs. 38,863 crore, the only way out is to increase the price of fertilizers which, I am sure, no section of this House is supporting.

Why are we obliged to provide Rs. 38,863 crore as fertilizer subsidy by cash? It is because the international prices have risen; inputs have risen; price of crude had risen and, therefore, naphtha had risen price of imported fertilizers had risen almost twice. Therefore, in order to support our farmers, I am obliged to come to this House and say that since we cannot increase the price of fertilizers, the only way we can meet the situation is to ask this House to vote another Rs. 38,863 crore by way of cash.

In addition, I am providing Rs. 14,000 crore by way of bonds. Mr. Swain said that by issuing bonds, we are transferring the burden to the next generation. That is absolutely true. If we had the money, we would provide it this year. If we do not have the money, the only way to do it is by borrowing, hoping that in the years to come, we will repay it over a period of time.

We live in a world where it started with the food crisis, a fuel crisis and now a financial crisis. In recent memory, there has never been an occasion when all the three crises came together. Fortunately, we had overcome our food crisis, thanks to our farmers who returned record production in many, many crops. Today, we are more or less self-sufficient in food grains; we have to still import some pulses and oilseeds. We have adequate buffer stock and we are building a strategic reserve of wheat and rice. Now, at the end of the term of the UPA Government, I can stand up and claim proudly that this Government is building and would have built a strategic reserve in food. Could you say that of any other period, a strategic reserve over and above the buffer stock?

I come again to say that I have to pay to the banks for the debt waiver. I provided Rs. 10,000 crore in the Budget. Then, I said that I would come back with a demand for Rs. 15,000 crore. Is that wrong? The banks have paid out Rs. 66,000 crore. We have to repay the banks, otherwise they will suffer from want of liquidity. Therefore, I come and say, “Please give me Rs. 15,000 crore.” Is anyone opposing it? I found Mr. Swain alone opposing it to say that this debt waiver scheme is a failure; it is a wrong scheme. I ask, “Is any section of the House, any political party, including the BJP, opposed to the debt waiver scheme?” Then, you must have the courage to stand up and say that your Party is opposed to the debt waiver scheme. It is not enough to allow one Member to stand up and speak against the scheme, while you go around the world and say, “My Party also supports the debt waiver scheme.”

When farmers committed suicide in Vidarbha, what was the clamour from all sections of the House? It was for writing off their debts. Did you not say that? “Write off their debts”, you said. Then, we came up and said, “All right, farmers are committing suicide in different parts of the country. It is a very sad development. Even if one farmer commits suicide, it is a blot on this nation, let us do a one-time debt waiver and debt write off.” We have written off or granted relief to three crore and sixty lakh farmers in a sum of Rs. 66,000 crore, and I hear one feeble voice stand up in this House and say that the debt waiver scheme is wrong. If the BJP has the courage, it should stand up and say that they oppose this scheme. I defy the BJP, and I dare the BJP to say that. … (Interruptions)

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Mr. Minister, I have not said that.

MR. SPEAKER: He is not yielding. You can ask for a clarification later on.

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : When he wanted me, I have yielded to him. I know that the Minister is a very intelligent lawyer. I never said that I object to the scheme as such. I only asked him what will happen to those people who have already paid their debts.

SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM: I will answer that.

MR. SPEAKER: This is a very important matter. Mr. Swain, you have made it clear.

SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM: Sir, the scheme itself was intended for farmers who were unable to pay and who had defaulted in paying it.[r34]

The scheme was never designed to pay back farmers who had paid the loans. That was never the scheme. We said anybody who had borrowed by a particular date, if it was outstanding on 31st of December, 2007 and remains unpaid on 29th February, 2008, will get the benefit of waiver. Nobody opposed the scheme at that time. Today, after we have granted benefit to 3,60,00,000 farmers, here is a voice which stands and says, “What about the farmers who have paid?” We have never said that it is a scheme for repaying farmers who have paid their loans.

When I travel around, when people ask me the same question in the Constituency, I give them an answer which appears satisfactory to them. I tell them, “Listen, if there are two children in a house, one child is healthy and one child is sick, I take the sick child to the doctor. I give medicine to the sick child. I do not take the healthy child to the doctor. I am happy that one of my children is healthy. I am unhappy that one of my children is sick. I take the sick child to the hospital and we give medicine to the sick child.”

We have a large number of farmers who are able to pay. Thanks to higher MSP given by this Government, thanks to better productivity, thanks to better production, they are repaying to the banks. I am proud of them. For them we have brought down the interest rate from 10 per cent in the NDA regime, it was nine per cent when we took over, we brought it down to seven per cent. Many State Governments have brought it down to five per cent. For them we are giving an interest relief. For the sick farmer who is unable to pay, we are giving a debt waiver and a debt relief. This answer is acceptable to most farmers. It is acceptable to many farmers that I have spoken to. Unfortunately, if this answer is not acceptable to Mr. Swain, I can only feel sorry for him.

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : I request the hon. Finance Minister to yield for a moment.

Sir, Bharatiya Janata Party has never opposed the debt waiver scheme.

MR. SPEAKER: We have heard him.

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : I am saying this on record. If you remember, it was Madhya Pradesh Government which went for farmers’ debt waiver way back when Sunderlal Patwaji was the Chief Minister. In various State Governments we have also done that. He also knows that in the State Government of Karnataka led by Bharatiya Janata Party the interest rate for farmers’ is only three per cent. Therefore, we are only pointing about the lacunae, and it is our duty to do so as the Opposition. There are very relevant questions raised by Shri Anant Geete regarding the scheme. … (Interruptions)

SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM: I will answer that.

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : Therefore, you need not dare the BJP. … (Interruptions)

SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM: I am happy Mr. Ananth Kumar has redeemed the situation for his Party after Mr. Swain’s intervention. No State which granted debt waiver, repaid loans which were paid by farmers. No State has done that. To ask the Central Government to do that is I think an extraordinary demand. We have only given waiver for farmers who are unable to pay their debt or who have defaulted in the payment of debt. That is broadly accepted by all sections of the House. I am glad Mr. Ananth Kumar has clarified the position of his Party not withstanding Mr. Swain’s intervention.

As far as Mr. Geete’s point is concerned, let me tell you, every bank on its website has published the name, the village, the address, and amount of waiver or relief given to the farmer. Every bank has given these details on its website. I have got with me softcopy of District-wise data compiled by the DLBC Convener Bank. I have also got with me State-wise data compiled by the State Lead Bank. So, if you want District-wise data, I am willing to give it to you. If you want State-wise data, I am willing to give it to you. If you want to look at bank-wise data, please go to the bank’s website, it is available.

SHRI ANANT GANGARAM GEETE (RATNAGIRI): That is there.

SHRI P.CHIDAMBARAM: The question Mr. Geete asked is, what about the certificates. I have asked the Chairmen on this. What is happening is, people came, they have seen their loan being written off, many of them have not come back to claim their certificates. A large number have already got the certificates. The certificates are ready. We have now told the banks to go to the villages and distribute the certificates to those who did not come to the bank branch to claim their certificates. So a farmer who has got Rs.12,000 as loan, he finds that Rs.12,000 has been written off. As far as he is concerned he is not bothered. He says, “All right. My Rs.12,000 loan has been written off. Why should I go back to the bank?”[KMR35]

But when he comes to the new loan, then he asks for the certificate. But we have now told the Chairmen of the banks, please go to the villages and distribute the certificates. If there is any particular pocket in Maharashtra where this is not being done properly, I am willing to look into it. We have no problem, the certificates are ready. I want the certificates to be given to all the farmers.

As far as new loans are concerned, it is true that in the months of July and August, because the loan waiver scheme was going on, there was a little uncertainty about issuing new loans. Instructions were issued; for the kharif crop new loans have been given; the loan scheme has picked up in the month of August and September and by the time the year is over, you would find that we will achieve the target and the target I have set this year is Rs.2.80 lakh of farm loan. I am confident that we would achieve the target. Again, if there is a particular part of this country where if any hon. Member thinks that loans are not being given, please bring it to my notice, we will certainly attempt to correct that.

Many Members – Shri Mohanty and Ananth Kumar – have spoken about Prime Minister’s statement, I think Prime Minister’s statement was a very elaborate statement. Traditionally, we try to manage inflation and growth. Now, interest rates, monetary policy are all intended to maintain a balance between inflation and growth. For four years, we had moderate inflation. In the fifth year, inflation went beyond tolerable limits and we know the reasons. It is because of crude oil prices; commodity prices and food prices. But those prices are moderating. We are confident that they will continue to moderate and the headline inflation will come down.

Now, we have got a new factor, that is, the financial stability. This is not something we have discussed in the last four or five years because the world’s financial system was stable. Unfortunately, towards the end of last calendar year, the world was rocked by financial instability. The Prime Minister’s statement , explains the origins of financial instability; how this spreads from the housing market; to the credit market and to other markets. Today we are facing the ripple effects of that financial instability. Therefore, today monetary policy has to take into account, not only inflation, not only growth, it has also to take into account the financial stability. In fact, the RBI has been cautioning for the last few months that because of the instability around the world, we need to take steps to ensure that our financial system is stable. When the financial institutions collapse, the collapse takes place within days and weeks. It then spreads to the non-financial institutions. We have a very strong financial system.

One of the first things this Government did, I am not saying this as a point of criticism, it is simply a point of fact, was when we came to power, we said, we formally abandon the NDA’s policy of reducing the Government stake in public sector to 33 per cent. That was your policy. We said, no, that is a wrong policy; we will not reduce it to 33 per cent. I said in this House, it will never go below 51 per cent. The fact that we have well regulated, well capitalised public sector banks in which the Government has 51 per cent or more equity is one of the reasons why the financial system in India is extraordinarily stable. At the same time, we encourage private banks; we encourage foreign banks because it is the competition between public sector banks, private sector banks and foreign banks that has expanded credit and has taken credit to many more millions of people and has given us the kind of advantage to support a high growth rate.

Sir, without getting into too much details, I just want to point out, for example, Shri Swain, who is always fond of pointing out that this Government is doing everything wrong. In fact, he praised his own Government for industrial growth. Memories are short. But it is my duty to remind you what your record is. You spoke about the IIP. Let us take one item. I can take each one of your points but I do not want to take the time of the House. I wonder whether Shri Swain knows that between 1988-89 and 2002-03, five years, when they had their first Finance Minister, the IPP, the growth rate of industry never exceeded 6.7 per cent in a year. [r36] That is the highest that you have achieved. If you look at all the five years, you had a year in which you had a growth rate of 2.7 per cent, you had a growth rate of 4.1 per cent; you had a growth rate of 5 per cent, you had a growth rate of 5.7 per cent; and in one year, it touched 6.7 per cent. That was the highest that was achieved in five years.

In the last year, 2003-04, because of the wise change you made, perhaps, the industrial growth rate touched 7 per cent.

What is our record? Our record of industrial growth is – in the first year, it was 8.4 per cent, in the 2nd year, it was 8.2 per cent, in the 3rd year, it was 11.6 per cent, in the 4th year, it was 8.1 per cent and in the 5th year, we will have to see; let us wait and see for the whole year to get over.

The lowest IIP in the four years of the UPA Government was 8.1; the highest IIP in the six years of the NDA Government was 7 per cent; the world will draw conclusions as to who has promoted industrial growth. … (Interruptions)

Sir, I am not yielding.

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : He inherited the economy from you! That is why, it has happened like that. You had given a dream Budget at that time and our Finance Minister inherited it from you.

SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM: Okay; he inherited the economy from me. His Government inherited the economy from me; I inherited the economy from them. But I will make sure that they will not inherit the economy from us; we will come back and continue to run this economy!

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Let us see that. He is a good dreamer!

SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM: Sir, let me conclude by saying that I have taken note of the other points that have been made.

We are in a situation where our banking system and financial system are stable; at this moment, we must stimulate our economy; the steps that we have taken in the CRR and on the repo rate are intended to stimulate the economy, even while we continue to pay attention to inflation.

I concede that inflation is still high. But the benefits of the decline in crude oil prices and the benefits of the decline in the commodity prices will bear fruit in the weeks and months to come. In fact, the reduction in crude oil prices has helped; but it has not helped to a point where we can roll back any prices.

Our administered prices of petrol, diesel, LPG and kerosene are based upon an Indian basket, calculated at 67 dollars a barrel. The price was of course 147 dollars a barrel; it came down to 71 dollars a barrel. It has gone up again this morning to 75 dollars a barrel; when the price comes down to 67 dollars a barrel, then, we are breaking even. Even at 71-72 dollars a barrel, there an element of subsidy and there is an under-recovery. The under-recovery has come down; we are not making any profit; to assume that the oil companies have started making a profit is a wrong assumption. Our prices are calibrated at 67 dollars a barrel, but we hope – we sincerely hope – that the crude oil prices will come down even further; like commodity prices have come down, some food prices have come down, this will have a beneficial effect over the coming weeks and months; in the meanwhile, we think that this is the right time to stimulate the economy, to provide liquidity so that industrial activity and production can take place.

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : Since the crude oil prices have fallen, may I know whether there is any proposal to roll back the prices?

SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM: I was just explaining that. I will repeat it.

Our current prices are calibrated on the basis of 67 dollars a barrel. Prices have come down to about 70 dollars a barrel, not to 67 dollars a barrel. Even today, therefore, there is an under-recovery, in every litre of petrol, in every litre of diesel, every cylinder of gas and in every litre of kerosene that is sold. So, we have not reached a point where under-recovery has been wiped out.

Therefore, you have to be patient. Let us hope that the prices will come down further, and at an appropriate time, I am sure, the Government will take an appropriate decision. This is not the appropriate time to take that decision.

With these words, I conclude.

MR. SPEAKER: You have ignored Shri Radhakrishnan! [p37]

SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM: Mr. Radhakrishnan was complaining about the law and order. Frankly, if there is a proper discussion on law and order, I am sure the Home Minister will reply. We are not happy about the incidents that have taken place. In fact, we condemn the incidents. You correctly said that the law and order is a State subject. The Central Government provides intelligence. No one can say that a terrorist attack is going to take place at this place at this time. All that you can provide is general intelligence, intelligence about movement of persons, intelligence about transfers of money and intelligence about interceptions. The effort to contain these terrorist attacks and to prevent them must be a joint effort of both the Central intelligence and the State Police… (Interruptions)

Sir, if you allow, the Minister of Agriculture wishes to intervene for a minute to explain the rice position.

MR. SPEAKER: Naturally, he has to tell his Chief Minister. All right, let us hear him. Now Mr. Radhakrishnan, you just see how I am helping you but you are still angry with me.

THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE AND MINISTER OF CONSUMER AFFAIRS, FOOD AND PUBLIC DISTRIBUTION (SHRI SHARAD PAWAR): Sir, the House is fully aware that about three years back there was a shortage in this country of both rice and wheat. A very unpleasant decision was taken about two years back to import some wheat. The prices of wheat in the international market were going very high and the availability of rice in the international market was not there at all. In such a situation, the Government of India had taken a conscious decision to maintain supply for the category of BPL of 35 kilogram throughout India and we have implemented that and also to maintain the supply of 35 kilogram per card to those who come under AAY category. So, there is no change for BPL and AAY category. We have supplied even today and tomorrow also we would supply… (Interruptions).

MR. SPEAKER: Kindly listen to him. He is answering you.

SHRI SHARAD PAWAR: As regards APL, we have seen what was exactly the lifting of all the States in the last three years. Our report says that most of the States including Kerala have not lifted the APL quota which was sanctioned to them. Constantly for three years, they have not lifted it. So, ultimately the Government of India took a decision that if they are not lifting as per allocation for three years, whatever they have lifted in three years, we have drawn an average and we have started allocating that much quantity. Even today we are allocating that. There was a special request from Kerala that we should allot more. So, from whatever is available, we are trying to give a little more to Kerala because of their special condition. I read in the newspaper an allegation that because our supporting party has withdrawn support to the Government, we have reduced the quota. But that is not at all a factual position. Even after withdrawal of the support to this Government, we have enhanced the allocation. We have given more for the Onam festival and we will continue to do so. Up to December, definitely we will enhance allocation and fortunately as per reports received yesterday, this year the paddy crop throughout India seems to be good. Our procurement which we have started is better than last year. We are getting good response and when we would complete the procurement, we will definitely enhance the quota not only for Kerala but for other States also.

SHRI TAPIR GAO : Sir, I would like to seek a clarification from the hon. Finance Minister. No one in this country can question the intelligence and knowledge of the hon. Finance Minister.

MR. SPEAKER: You are a young Member and you are doing well. Why should you make such comments? It does not make any good impression.

SHRI TAPIR GAO : In the last part of his reply to the debate he has tried to explain the reasons for price rise. Maybe, all the 545 Members of this House would get convinced with his arguments, but we want a practical example on the ground where the poor people can also understand this argument and are able to fill their pockets and meet their daily expenses. I need a clarification from the hon. Finance Minister in this regard as to how the poorest of the poor living in this country can meet their daily expenses.

SHRI P.C. THOMAS (MUVATTUPUZHA): Sir, my clarification is regarding the relief. In the Budget declaration it was said that all agricultural loans taken before 31.03.07, if all the other conditions are okay, will be written off or given debt relief. But when the implementation guidelines came it has been said that all long term loans before 31.03.1997 will be out of the scheme. That means many farmers who have taken long-term loans will be out of the purview of this scheme.

MR. SPEAKER: It is not a debate on that scheme.

SHRI P.C. THOMAS : Sir, it is quite clear. Many farmers in the State of Kerala especially had taken long-term loans, say, for 14 years or 15 years and their repayment itself starts after 10 years. So, many of them are getting out of the scheme. Can the hon. Finance Minister clarify this point?

SHRI N.N. KRISHNADAS (PALGHAT): Sir, I would like to seek a clarification from the hon. Agriculture Minister. He has mentioned that there is no cut to the State of Kerala for APL for the last three years. But because of this cut only the State Government had not been lifting the allotted quota for the last three years. I think, the hon. Minister is making this statement with some misunderstanding. What is the reality? The Union Government should consider that the State of Kerala from the very beginning has been a food deficit State, particularly in respect of foodgrains. [R38]

There was an agreement that the Union Government will provide food grains to the PDS for the State of Kerala. Whenever there are sufficient food grains in our market, we may not be lifting the allocated quota. But the Union Government should treat all the States of this country in an equal manner. Whenever we are facing any difficulty in the market, we are asking assistance from the Government. During the festival season, the APL quota was totally cut and we brought rice in our capacity from West Bengal to provide it to the people. … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: It is enough. You have made your point. Shri Varkala Radhakrishan has also made this point.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Krishnadas, he has already said that he will give it.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI BIKRAM KESHARI DEO (KALAHANDI): The Finance Minister just said that he is going to give Rs. 38,000 crore subsidy for fertilisers. I want to know whether the fertiliser subsidy which he is going to give will be given direct to the producers. He can channelise it to the farmers so that they will get the direct benefit. … (Interruptions) Lastly, on the MSP for paddy, he has promised the House that he will make it to Rs. 1000 per quintal. But our demand is …… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: This is not a clarification. It is not on Supplementary for Grants. I am sorry.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI K. FRANCIS GEORGE (IDUKKI): The hon. Finance Minister has said that all sections of the House have welcomed the loan waiver scheme. That is true but the point is, he has also mentioned that this is not a scheme for repayment of loans that is already being paid. Agreed. But the hon. Finance Minister and the Government should understand as to how this repayment was made by many of the small and medium farmers.

MR. SPEAKER: This is not a discussion on that scheme at all.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI K. FRANCIS GEORGE : Several sections have been left out from the scheme. For example, the cardamom farmers of this country have been left out. Cardamom is grown in a very small area of Idukki district of Kerala. This five acre cut-off limit has excluded the entire section of cardamom farmers from this particular scheme which could have been very beneficial to them.

MR. SPEAKER: It is not a matter of clarification.

SHRI K. FRANCIS GEORGE : I will just make one important point.

MR. SPEAKER: All points are important.

SHRI K. FRANCIS GEORGE : One important section has been left out of this scheme. This is concerning the small and medium farmers who are growing cardamom. They have land varying from five to 12.5 acres. All of them are in debt due to the steep fall in the prices of cardamom for the last several years. The high input cost has added to their problems. … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: You never came here to speak on the Demands. In the name of clarification, you want to make a speech. When you could have spoken for 20 minutes, you were not there.

SHRI K. FRANCIS GEORGE : Sir, we had to walk out and hence I could not speak. So, I will just seek a clarification. … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Enough is enough. You cannot have a better right because you walked out. Nothing more will be recorded.

(Interruptions) … *

SHRI K.S. RAO (ELURU): Sir, loan waiver of Rs. 73,000 crore is a very historical step of the Government particularly benefiting the farmers. Fishing is also part of the farming as agreed by the Ministry of Agriculture. Like how fertilizer is a major input for any crop, fish feed is the major input in fish farming. My area is producing the largest quantity of fish which is supplied to most parts of the country including your State. Fish farmers are denied the benefit of waiver on the fish feed which is a major input for which they are taking loans from the banks. Luckily, the Minister for Agriculture is also present here. I wish to know from both the Ministers whether they will pass on the message to the bankers to see that the loan taken on the fish feed also is considered f[U39] or loan waiver.

* Not recorded

DR. PRASANNA KUMAR PATASANI (BHUBANESWAR): The increased allocations under the supplementary demand for grants 2008-09 to help finance big-ticket social sector programmes like National Rural Employment Guarantee scheme (NREGA) and upgradation of industrial training institutes (ITIs)

The government has also considerably hiked allocations under the non-plan category to help the ministries and departments take care of the additional expenses that they have to make while implementing the 6th Central Pay Commission recommendations. The Human Resource Development ministry would get Rs 761.54 crore to create a corpus fund which would provide scholarships to students under the National Means – cum – Merit Scholarship scheme. The allocation also includes the money required to meet the administrative costs of the scheme during 2008-09.

Under the non-plan expenditure, the ministry would get Rs 281.35 crore to pay the hiked wages and salaries following the 6th Pay Commission’s suggestions. Another Rs 539.63 crore would be given to the autonomous bodies to help them meet the additional costs that would arise while adhering to the Pay Commission. The ministry would also get Rs 200 crore as grants-in-aid for school education. This money would go to the Navodaya Vidyalaya Samiti and the National Bal Bhavan.

Trying to deliver on its commitments, the Centre has allocated Rs 50 crore for the States under plan funds to set up Centers of Excellence and for upgradation of ITIs. The ministry of labour and employment would also get Rs 625 crore to facilitate grant of free loans to institute management committees of the concerned ITIs across the country. The ministry of Rural Development would receive a total of Rs 10,850 crore for Indira Awas Yojana and the National Rural Employment Guarantee scheme which will get the bigger chunk of Rs 10,500 crore of the total package. The ministry of health and family welfare would get around Rs. 195 crore which would be spent towards meeting the additional expenses arising due to the increased pay packages under 6th Pay Commission.

* Speech was laid on the Table

SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM: Sir, we cannot have another round of debate on the Debt Loan Waiver Scheme. Anyone who announces a scheme will find that there are ten ways in which the scheme can be improved. The Scheme that was announced in the Budget was indeed improved by the time the Finance Bill was passed. We did make some relaxations; we did extend larger benefits to people who have more than five acres. But I am sure that one can improve upon that scheme. If, say, Shri Anantha Kumar had made a scheme, I could have improved upon that scheme. The point is we can only do what is affordable and what is doable. I believe we have done what is affordable; what is doable; what is transparent; and what is non-discriminatory.

We have given benefit to three crore and sixty lakh farmers. We received only 1,44,990 grievances, which is a very small percentage. Out of that, 33,205 grievances were found to be correct. They were accepted and they were also given the benefit; 85,648 grievances were found to be incorrect and they were explained why they are not entitled to the relief that they have claimed for.

So, by and large this Scheme has been implemented throughout the country. Over three and a half crore farmers are happy. I do not think it is possible at this stage to tamper with the Scheme or improve upon the Scheme. I think the Scheme has been done and farmers have benefited.

You will see that when you find the acreage that is sown this year and the production that comes this year. You will find many more millions of farmers have been enthused to remain in agriculture and grow more food for the country.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you.

I shall now put the Supplementary Demands for Grants (General) for 2008-2009 to the vote of the House.

The question is:

“That the respective supplementary sums not exceeding the amounts on Revenue Account and Capital Account shown in the third column of the Order Paper be granted to the President of India, out of the Consolidated Fund of India, to defray the charges that will come in course of payment during the year ending the 31st day of March, 2009, in respect of the heads of Demands entered in the second column thereof against Demand Nos. 1 to 12, 14 to 25, 27 to 33, 35, 38 to 62, 64 to 74, 76, 77, 79 to 95 and 97 to 105.”

The motion was adopted.

by the hon. Prime Minister. I have listened very carefully the whole of yesterday to the speeches led by the speech of the Leader of the Opposition and many

other hon. Members.

Sir, this Government did not move a Motion of Confidence when it was first sworn in office. It has widely accepted that this Government enjoyed a clear majority.

The withdrawal of support by the Left Parties created a situation where despite the numbers, the numbers were easily demonstrated by simple arithmetic by the hon.

External Affairs Minister yesterday, a question arose whether this Government enjoyed the confidence of this House or not… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Silence in the House. If you are not interested, you may please go out and come for the voting only.

SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM: Sir, the Prime Minister offered to move the motion and he has moved the motion with a brief but eloquent speech.

My good friend, Mr. Salim said that we have moved away from six basic principles of the Common Minimum Programme. If I had the time, I would deal with

each one of the six, but since I have limited time today, there are many other hon. Members, like Mr. Malhotra, who will be speaking, let me deal with two of the more

important of the six principles.

The first is that this Government will ensure that the economy grows at least seven to eight per cent per year in a sustained manner. After 42 months what is the

position? The economy has grown at an average of 8.9 per cent in the first four years. Compare this with the average of 5.8 per cent during the six years of NDA

Government. We came into office towards the end of the Tenth Plan… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Silence in the House.

SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM: The target for the Tenth Plan was eight per cent. It is because the economy grew at 9.4 per cent in 2005-06 and 9.6 per cent in 2006-07 that

we were able to achieve an average growth rate for the Tenth Plan of 7.8 per cent, which was nearly close to the target of eight per cent. The Eleventh Plan began in

2007-08. There were prophets of gloom and doom. I had always maintained that in 2007-08 we will grow close to nine per cent.

Actually, when the revised agricultural estimates have come in, the growth in 2007-08 is close to 9.1 per cent. We have made a resounding start to the Eleventh

Plan and I am confident that we can redeem our promise to grow at over seven to eight per cent.

Sir, I wish to make a special mention of agriculture. The year 2007-08 has a watershed year in India’s agricultural history. Food grains production registered an

all time record of 230.7 million tonnes. Of this, rice production was 96.43 million tonnes, which is a record; wheat production is 78.4 million tonnes, which is a record;

coarse cereals was 40.7 million tonnes, which is a record; pulses was 15.1 million tonnes, which is a record; oil seeds was 28.87 million tonnes, which is a record…

(Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: I am repeatedly appealing to all sections of the House. What more can the Chair do if you interrupt every speaker like this? No, it is not permitted. Do

not record one word. Nothing will be recorded except the submission by the hon. Member who is on his legs.

(Interruptions) …*

MR. SPEAKER: This has become a disease.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: No. I am sorry. You are the Leader of a Party, Mr. Geethe. Please sit down.[r1]

* Not recorded

SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM: Mr. Geete, yesterday, if I recall right, I was here and I was watching you on television. I did not switch off the television when you were

speaking. So, kindly listen to me patiently.

Cotton was 25.81 million bales, which is a record. How did this come about? This came about through farsighted plans, missionary approach and attention to

details. This Government launched the National Horticulture Mission. This Government undertook renovation, repair and restoration of water bodies. This Government

appointed the Vaidyanathan Committee for reviving cooperative credit institutions. This Government launched a mission for pulses. This Government set up the

Rainfed Area Development Authority. This Government launched the Rashtriya Krishi Vikas Yojana for Rs. 25,000 crore and the National Food Security Mission for Rs.

4,882 crore. Under this Government’s charge, capital formation in agriculture has increased from 10.2 per cent in 2003-04 to 12.5 per cent in 2006-07.

In the first four years, we have sanctioned proposals for Rs. 50,000 crore under RIDF and the corpus for the current year is Rs. 18,000 crore. So, I ask, Sir,

respectfully, show me any other four year period in the history of independent India where so much has been done for agriculture. This is a difficult year. I promise

you, even in this difficult year, we will achieve a growth rate which is better than what was promised in the CMP. And will be a growth rate far better than what was

achieved in the six years of the NDA Government.

Another of the six principles was to enhance the welfare and well-being of farmers, farm labour and workers, particularly those in the unorganized sector. No

Government has done more for farmers than this Government. I recognize that some farmers take the extreme step of committing suicide. It was so ten years ago; it

was so four years ago. Every suicide is a blot. Whenever there is a suicide, we have to hang our heads in shame. We have, therefore, addressed the needs of

farmers in a systematic way. We are confident that, while some results are visible, more results will be visible.

Sir, farm credit has increased from Rs. 86,000 crore in 2003-04 to Rs. 2,50,000 crore in 2007-08. This year, the target is Rs. 2,80,000 crore; but we will exceed

the target. In order to take care of farm labour, who do not get work throughout the year, we introduced the NREG Scheme. In less than 15 months, the Scheme has

been rolled out to all the 597 rural districts of India. Why did the NDA not introduce the NREG Scheme? A paltry amount of Rs. 75 was given as old-age pension. We

raised it to Rs. 200 a month. We have removed the condition that they must be destitute. We persuaded the State Governments to match it by another Rs. 200. Why

did the NDA turn a blind eye to the suffering of old people?

For unorganized workers, there is a path-breaking Bill before Parliament. We are debating the Bill. We have not yet resolved the differences on the Bill. Yet,

even before the Bill was passed, we introduced Aam Aadmi Bima Yojana which would provide death and disability insurance to the poor. By October 1, we will enroll

one crore people. The Swasthya Bima Yojana would provide medical cover to the poor; 11 States have signed up. The Janashree Bima Yojana would provide health

and life cover to millions of women who are members of self-help groups. Sir, why did the NDA not introduce a single scheme for the unorganised sector?

Finally, never before in the history of this country, has any Government undertaken a loan waiver scheme of the size and scale that has been undertaken by this

Government. I am happy to report to this House that on the basis of data gathered from the participating financial institutions, these are our conclusions.[r2]

Debt waivers have been granted for a sum of Rs. 50,254 crore. Debt relief has been granted for a sum of Rs. 16,223 crore. Thus, the total amount of debt waiver and

debt relief is Rs. 66,477 crore. … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Please sit down.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Nothing will go on record.

(Interruptions) … *

MR. SPEAKER: There is too much of noise in the House. Nothing is being recorded.

(Interruptions) …*

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Anant Geete, you are a respected Member and a very respected leader. Please sit down. Today you seem to be too touchy. You are a leader

of a very important Party. Please do not interrupt. Please sit down.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Shri P.C. Thomas, you please take your seat.

SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM: Sir, the total amount, I repeat, granted under debt waiver and debt relief is Rs. 66,477 crore. Among the beneficiaries, the number of small

and marginal farmers is 2,98,05,305, and the number of other farmers is 65,81,818. Thus the total number of beneficiaries is 3,63,00,000. … (Interruptions)

Sir, the hon. Members will note that I have more than fulfilled my promise made to this House. But for the loan waiver and debt relief, these three crore and

sixty-three lakh farmers would not have been entitled for loans, and they are now being given loans. That is reflected in the increase in the sowing area, and that would

be reflected eventually in the increase in food production at the end of the year.

* Not recorded

Sir, this debate naturally turns on an agreement that we have signed with the US. … (Interruptions) We should remember that India has signed agreements not

with just one country. It has signed agreements with more than one country. We have signed an agreement with the US, we have signed an agreement with France,

and we have signed an agreement with Russia. As the Minister for External Affairs has said, we need to cross two stages before we can operationalize any of these

agreements. The first is the safeguards agreement with the IAEA, and the second is the waiver from the NSG.

Questions were asked about the 123 Agreement and the Hyde Act. Let me explain in terms which I understand, and I would earnestly request the hon.

Members to just lend me their ears for a couple of minutes. These are not very complicated legal issues.

In 1954, the U.S. adopted the Atomic Energy Act. That Act prohibits the US from cooperating on nuclear matters with any country until certain conditions are

fulfilled. Section 123 authorizes the President of the US to exempt the proposed agreement from the conditions. That is why, this agreement is called ‘123

Agreement’. The Hyde Act was passed in 2006 and it became the law in December, 2006. Please mark the date. The 123 Agreement text was agreed between India

and the US on August 1, 2007.[H3]

So, the 123 Agreement is an agreement after the Hyde Act came into force. In the US, it is a well-accepted Constitutional principle, well enshrined that while

passing a Bill into law, the President may issue a signed statement asserting his Constitutional prerogative powers and refusing to abide by any provisions of the US

Act.

We are not concerned with the provisions of the US Act nor are we concerned with what the US President said. That is their domestic matter. But the fact is that

the US President issued a signed statement when he signed the Hyde Act into law. Six months later, we agreed on the text of the 123 Agreement. The question is,

what is the status of the 123 Agreement. In the US, the status is quite clear. Every US commentator, every US newspaper, every analyst has said that the 123

Agreement is not inconsistent with the Hyde Act because, according to the White House, when properly construed, the later 123 Agreement nearly fleshes out the

details for the US-India Nuclear Cooperation, and the 123 Agreement dwells upon the exceptions carved out in the Hyde Act, and once the Congress approves the 123

Agreement, that Agreement and that Agreement alone, will delineate the specific rights and responsibilities of the US and India as a prevailing law that governs and

controls the Agreement.

Now, look at it from our point of view. That was the US interpretation; that is the interpretation, which I rely upon because that is the way the US looks at it. The

123 Agreement alone will delineate the rights and responsibilities of the parties. Let us look at it from the Indian law point of view. The 123 Agreement is, according to

Article 2.5– and I urge you to read it — “to enable full civil nuclear energy cooperation between the parties.” Please underline the words ‘to enable’. It is an agreement

to enable full civil nuclear energy cooperation between the parties. It contemplates such cooperation on an industrial scale or a commercial scale. Under Article 16,

the Agreement enters into force on a date on which the parties will exchange diplomatic notes, informing each other that they have completed all applicable

requirements. The legal status of the 123 Agreement is that it has not yet entered into force. It will enter into force after India and the United States notify each other;

and they can do so only after completing all applicable requirements. It is, therefore, an enabling agreement. And, even after it enters into force, you would have to

enter into further agreements for industrial or commercial scale cooperation in nuclear energy.

The next question is: How do you interpret under our law and international law, the 123 Agreement and any earlier agreements? Article 16.4 of the 123

Agreement says: “The Agreement shall be implemented in good faith and in accordance with the principles of international law.” Please underline that. The Agreement

shall be interpreted and implemented in accordance with the principles of international law. Under the customary international law as well as the Vienna Convention on

the Law of Treaties, any party may not invoke the provisions of its internal law as justification for its failure to perform a Treaty. The 123 Agreement is a Treaty. The Hyde

Act is an internal law. You cannot invoke the Hyde Act in order to refuse to perform your obligations under a Treaty.

And further more, when the 123 Agreement is ratified by the US Congress, it is up or down vote, when it is ratified by the US Congress, it will be the last

expression of the Legislature on the subject and under the principle, which is known to every lawyer, the last expression of the Legislature will prevail over any earlier

law passed by the same Legislature… (Interruptions)[r4]

SHRI RUPCHAND PAL : I know it may not be.… (Interruptions)

SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM: I am not yielding because I have to complete this part.

Besides, under Article VI(2) of the US Constitution, all treaties made or which shall be made under the authority of the United States shall be the supreme law of

the land. In any view of the matter, the Hyde Act does not bind India. It cannot interfere with the implementation of 123 Agreement. The 123 Agreement alone will

delineate the rights and responsibilities between India and the US. It will be the last expression of the Legislature, and under the Vienna Convention, we are bound only

by the 123 Agreement.… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Just a minute.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Do not record.

(Interruptions) … *

MR. SPEAKER: Nothing is being recorded.

I would have given you opportunity to seek clarification but you are not listening.

(Interruptions) …*

* Not recorded

MR. SPEAKER: Very well. When we go to the people, the people will decide.

… (Interruptions)

You are not bound by his statement.
… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Lawyers are for that purpose. You do not know it. You have never faced it. I have faced it.

SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM: The UPA-Left Committee held nine meetings between September 11, 2007 and June 6, 2008. At the fourth meeting on October 9, 2007, the

CPI(M)’s Members noted that the Left Parties were not opposed to a safeguards agreement on principle just as they have not been opposed to the separation plan.

Their objection continued to be to the 123 Agreement. This issue was discussed at the fifth meeting on October, 22, 2007 and at the sixth meeting on November, 16,

2007. At the sixth meeting, after the exchanges, it was decided that the impact of the provisions of the Hyde Act and the 123 Agreement on the IAEA Safeguards

Agreement would have to be examined, and since it required talks with the IAEA Secretariat for working out the text of an India-Specific Safeguards Agreement, the

Government will proceed with the talks and the outcome will be presented to the Committee. That is precisely what this Government has done.

It went to the IAEA Secretariat for talks. It agreed upon a text. It froze that text. We came back to the Committee on March, 17, May 6 and June 25, and we have

reported the outcome of the talks to the Committee. We have done nothing in a non-transparent manner.… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Nothing will be recorded.

(Interruptions) … *

* Not recorded

SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM: We have done it in the most transparent manner. We have taken everybody on board and we have told them that this is the outcome of the

talks, and now the text is available. The ISSA text is available. The ISSA text will clearly show..… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Nothing will go on record.

(Interruptions) … *

SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM : Mr. Salim, please sit down.

None of my comrades were members of the Committee. We know what happened in the Committee. We have said the ISSA text will be made available on the

same day it is circulated officially to the Members of the IAEA Board. When we decided to go forward and circulate it to the Members of the IAEA Board, on the same

day it was made available in India.… (Interruptions) The text is now available in India.… (Interruptions)

Sir, they cannot interrupt every time.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, you have made your position very clear. Now, let him say.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Instead of shouting, why do you not speak? Your leader will be speaking[m5] .

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER : I am sure, he will make these points. Unnecessarily do not get agitated. Do not get agitated too much. It will not help.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER : Your leader will be speaking. You give all your points to him.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM : Sir, I listened to Mr. Salim patiently yesterday. I think he will show me the courtesy of listening to me today. … (Interruptions)

* Not recorded

MR. SPEAKER : Yes, that is right.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM : Please listen first.

Sir, the short question is – does India want to end the nuclear isolation which we find ourselves in since 1974, more so since 1998? What did the hon. Prime

Minister Shri Vajpayee say in the United Nations General Assembly? I quote. After referring to the tests he said : “These tests do not signal a dilution of India’s

commitment to the pursuit of nuclear disarmament. Accordingly, after concluding this limited testing programme, India announced” – India, the Government of Mr.

Vajpayee announced – “a voluntary moratorium on further underground nuclear test explosions”.

“We conveyed our willingness to move towards a de jure formalization of this obligation in announcing a moratorium. India has already accepted the basic

obligation of the CTBT. India is now engaged in discussions with our key interlocutors on a range of issues including the CTBT. We are prepared to bring these

discussions to a successful conclusion so that the entry into force of the CTBT is not delayed beyond September, 1999.”

Then he came to this House and made a statement on 15th December, 1998. He says : “This House will be reassured that in the assessment of our scientists

this stand” – that is converting our voluntary moratorium into a de jure obligation – “does not come in the way of our taking such steps as may be found necessary in

future to safeguard our national security. It also does not constrain us from continuing with our R&D programmes nor does it jeopardise in any manner the safety and

effectiveness of our nuclear deterrent in the years to come.”

“In addition to the talks between Shri Jaswant Singh and Mr. Strobe Talbott” – they did have talks Mr. Malhotra, may be you forgot; the Prime Minister confirms

that they had talks – “we have had detailed exchanges with France and Russia. Discussions have also taken place with UK and China at the level of Shri Jaswant Singh

and at official level with Germany and Japan as well as with other non-nuclear weapon States. I have been in regular correspondence with President Clinton. President

Clinton has also expressed to me his desire for a broad-based relationship with India that befits the two largest democracies of the world. I have fully reciprocated

these sentiments. Indeed, our ongoing dialogue with the United States is geared towards that end. I am confident this House will want to wish it all success”.

What has this Government done? It has taken the dialogue forward. Today we have the 123 Agreement. The question is that, and I will conclude on this note. …

(Interruptions)

MD. SALIM : Two wrongs cannot make it correct. … (Interruptions)

SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM : Do we want to come out of nuclear isolation? … (Interruptions) Mr. Salim, this is important.

Do we want to come out of the nuclear isolation? Sir, in this connection, I want to share with this House what China is doing. China’s electricity today is produced,

80 per cent from fossil fuel such as coal and 18 per cent from hydro power. Two per cent of China’s electricity comes from nuclear power. Mainland China has eleven

nuclear power reactors in commercial operation. Six are under construction and several more are about to start construction. Additional reactors are planned including

some of the world’s most advanced to give a six-fold increase in nuclear capacity, to at least 50,000 megawatt by 2020 and then – this is important – a further three to

four fold increase to 1,20,000 to 1,60,000 megawatt of electricity by 2030. The country aims to become self-sufficient in reactor design and construction as well as other

aspects of the fuel cycle.

Moves to build nuclear power in China commenced in 1970 and the industry has now moved towards a steady development phase. Technology is being drawn

from France, Canada and Russia with local development based largely on the French element. The latest technology acquisition has been from the US and France. A

country contributing two per cent nuclear energy towards total electricity … (Interruptions)

SHRI RUPCHAND PAL (HOOGHLY): You cannot compare India with China. … (Interruptions)

SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM: We cannot because there are some people in this country who do not want India to catch up with China, who do not want India to go ahead

of China. There are some people who want China to become an economic super power but India should never become an economic super power. … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Just a second, Mr. Minister.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: You sit down.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Md. Salim, you have spoken, so far as I remember, without much interruption. You are a very senior Member.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM: Sir, I have no hesitation in saying … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Please sit down. Shri Chowdhury, please sit down.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Just a minute. Again, I am requesting let us follow some decorum of debates.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Would you keep quiet?

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: I am saying that your leader will be speaking. Let him take up these points. At least, you are not showing to be a disciplined party.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM: Sir, I have no hesitation in saying that I do not envy China. I want to emulate China. I want India to be an economic power and economic

super power.

Sir, when we talk about India, we should talk about only countries which are as large and as complex as India and that is China. We cannot talk about countries

which are smaller than India or poorer than India. We must aspire to greater heights. Our ambitions must be large. When we talk about growth, we say that growth is a

necessary condition not a sufficient condition. Let me give you some examples. … (Interruptions) Sir, China, for instance, has 29 million hectares under rice cultivation.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Do not record anything except the speech of Minister.

(Interruptions) …*

SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM: China has 29 million hectares under rice cultivation. India has 43 million hectares under rice cultivation. China produces 6.26 metric tonnes

per hectare. The world average is 4.08 metric tonnes per hectare. India produces 2.1 metric tonnes per hectare. China has 23.4 million hectares under wheat while India

has 25 million hectares under wheat. China produces 4.42 metric tonnes per hectare. The world average is 2.79 metric tonnes per hectare. India produces 2.72 metric

tonnes per hectare. When I say we must grow, we must grow more wheat; we must grow more paddy; and we must emulate the best in the world.

China produces 419 million tonnes of steel. India produces 44 million tonnes of steel. China produces 2,482 million tonnes of coal. India produces 427 million

tonnes of coal. China generates 2,834 megawatt hour of electricity; India does 726 megawatt hour. When I say we must grow, we must produce more coal, produce

more steel and generate more electricity. That is the only way we can bring economic justice to the people of this country.

* Not recorded.

Let me conclude by saying that BJP … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Do not record anything.

(Interruptions) …*

SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM: The BJP and NDA seem to agree that we should end our nuclear isolation. After all these interruptions, no one is clear about the stand of the

Left Parties. Let the two groups … (Interruptions)[SS6]

Yet the two groups … (Interruptions)

MD. SALIM : Sir, Mr. Chidambaram stands on the Left’s support. … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: I express my strongest displeasure. We are following certain tactics, which I can only condemn. I can only condemn whosoever follows these things.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: I am condemning these things.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM : Yet the two Groups are voting together against this Motion of Confidence. … (Interruptions)

SHRI N.N. KRISHNADAS (PALGHAT): No, it is against you personally. … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Mr. Krishnadas, please take your seat. Please sit down.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Nothing is being recorded. Do not record anything.

(Interruptions) …*

MR. SPEAKER: Please take your seat. Nothing else will be recorded.

(Interruptions) …*

SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM : The NDA has no problem with a strategic relationship with the US. The Left Parties are ideologically opposed to any

* Not recorded.

partnership — strategic or otherwise — with the US. Yet the two Groups are voting together against this Motion of Confidence. … (Interruptions)

The NDA believes, as I listen to them, that India should become a nuclear weapon State, whereas the Left Parties have always been opposed to nuclear

weapons and nuclear weaponisation. Yet the two Groups are voting together against this Motion of Confidence. … (Interruptions)

MD. SALIM : Your Prime Minister went to the Bhishma Pitamah for his support. … (Interruptions)

SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM : The NDA says that if it comes to power, God forbid, it will renegotiate the Agreement. The Left Parties say that they will do everything

possible to scuttle the Agreement now and for ever. Yet the two Groups are voting together against this Motion of Confidence. … (Interruptions)

Sir, I doubt … … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: You should take lessons from them. They have not disturbed the House. Why should you be disturbed?

… (Interruptions)

SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM : I doubt if in the history of India’s Parliament we have seen anything more bizarre than these two Groups voting together against the Motion of

Confidence. … (Interruptions)

Let me conclude by saying … … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: It is going beyond limit.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: You cannot have a running commentary in the House.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI N.N. KRISHNADAS : You were the victim in 1997. … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: You have made your point. Your Leader will speak on it.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Mr. Krishnadas, I think that I will have to take some action. Do not think that you are glorifying yourself or your Party.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI N.N. KRISHNADAS : Yes, I am glorifying my Party. … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Yes, I know it, but it is in this undisciplined manner.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: You are behaving in this undisciplined manner.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Please do not think that I will allow this to continue on any side. Whichever is the side will have to face the consequences.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM : Yesterday, from the Speaker’s Chair, you welcomed … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: We are talking of ourselves as the largest democracy in the world. This is how we are behaving!

… (Interruptions)

SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM : Yesterday, from the Speaker’s Chair, you welcomed one of the youngest Members of Parliament. There are millions of young boys and

girls, and young men and women out there who are looking towards this Parliament and looking to the future.[r7]

We can make our future; the future is in our hands. We can make our future, if we decide to have the vision and the farsightedness that can take this country forward. In

the late 1980s and in the early 1990s, my beloved leader, Shri Rajiv Gandhi, followed by Shri Narasimha Rao and Dr. Manmohan Singh blazed a new path which made

India a stronger economy than what it was 15 years ago. Today, this Government under Dr. Manmohan Singh’s leadership is charting out a new path which will end

India’s nuclear isolation, which will pave way for India becoming an economic super-power.

I ask this House to give a resounding vote of confidence to the Prime Minister.

MR. SPEAKER: Now, I call upon Prof. Vijay Kumar Malhotra, Deputy Leader to speak. I just want to inform that your Party has 39 minutes left. I am not giving any

direction, please listen to me. We had decided upon 12 hours for the debate. We have taken, yesterday, nine hours and forty-two minutes, and another 40 minutes this

morning. Certainly, you will have your full time. If it is necessary, we shall extend the time. At that time, we shall consider, but at the moment, your Party has 39 minutes

left.

MR. SPEAKER: You will have other Members to speak. They can refute this.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI KIRIP CHALIHA (GUWAHATI): Sir, I am on a point of order. … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Just a minute, Prof. Malhotra. I will find out what is his point of order. Mr. Chaliha, have you decided what point of order you want to raise?

* Not recorded.

SHRI KIRIP CHALIHA : Yes, Sir, I want to raise the point of order under Rule 352. According to the rule, making an allegation against the Member without any

substance is not permitted. How can he name the Congress President and the Prime Minister’s Office?[r8]

MR. SPEAKER: I think, he is right. You cannot make allegations against anybody without following the rules. I uphold that point.

MR. SPEAKER: How can I decide without listening?

MR. SPEAKER: But they are still Members of the House. They are permitted to come and vote. So far as I am concerned, they are Members of the House and they

have a right to vote.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Do not record anything.

(Interruptions) …*

MR. SPEAKER: I have myself said. Why are you bothered? All of you cannot speak together.

(Interruptions) … *

* Not recorded.

PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA : I know that they can vote. … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: I only said that every Member of the House should be guided by her or his own heart. Mr. Malhotra, they are entitled to enter the House; they are

entitled to participate and vote. You cannot make comments like this. I would not allow it.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Why are you disturbing your leader, Mr. Ananth Kumar?

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR (BANGALORE SOUTH): We are not disturbing, Sir.

MR. SPEAKER: Do not record one word.

(Interruptions) … *

MR. SPEAKER: That will be deleted.

MR. SPEAKER: Delete it.

MR. SPEAKER: Everybody is a jewel. Everybody is himself a jewel.

* Not recorded.

MR. SPEAKER: I do not know what is the future of this country if Parliament of India behaves like this?

… (Interruptions)

Wants Akali to Back PM.”

MR. SPEAKER : I am sorry. You have not taken permission; they are not here; their names cannot be mentioned.

PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA : Sir, …

MR. SPEAKER: No, it cannot be done and you know that very well. You know as much as I do. You are here for a long time and you know as much as I do.

MR. SPEAKER: Prof. Malhotra, you come to the subject please.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: This is not the way to conduct the business of the House.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Nothing is being recorded. You go on shouting. Let me see.

(Interruptions) …*

* Not recorded.

MR. SPEAKER: I have not given permission to you, Shri Rajesh Ranjan.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Prof. Malhotra, you come to the subject please.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Please sit down, Shri Athawale. I am on my legs.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: I will put the Motion to vote immediately if this is the way you behave in the House and the House behaves in this manner. Then you do whatever you

like.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: The House stands adjourned till 1215 hours.

MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, please take your seats.

With a very very heavy heart, I had to adjourn a very important debate, because it was impossible to maintain any decorum in this House or have an atmosphere

where we can have a responsible discussion on a very important matter.

I am again and again appealing from the very first day – if you want to say something, first you will listen to others and then reply. If every sentence is opposed,

then you cannot have a debate. I am also requesting all the hon. Members who will be speaking, please do not make any personal allegations or insinuations like this;

please restrict yourselves to the issues; I do not have to advise you. All of you are very responsible hon. Members. The whole country is watching us. This is the

greatest agony for me, sitting in this Chair to observe that nobody listens to the Chair and nobody bothers to even show little respect to this institution. Where are we

heading for? Power is not everything.

Therefore, may I appeal once again to every hon. Member who will be participating and those who will be listening to please consider what is happening here? I

was forced to adjourn the proceedings of this House. With the greatest agony and with great sorrow, I have done it.

Prof. Malhotra may continue.

… (Interruptions)

I will take action against you. You think that I am only shouting from here, but if I will ask you to get out, then you will realize what happens.

MR. SPEAKER: Who said that?

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Yes, I have said that, Shri Devendra Prasad Yadav.

Now, I will request you to come here and maintain discipline!

MR. SPEAKER: That word will be omitted.

* Not recorded.

… (Interruptions)

PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA : Sir, “The US, Canada, Germany, France and Japan all seem to be reviewing their nuclear energy programmes and

commissioning of new nuclear power plants in all these countries has almost come to a stand-still. The biggest supplier of Uranium in the world is yet to initiate a

nuclear power programme.”

THE MINISTER OF PANCHAYATI RAJ AND MINISTER OF DEVELOPMENT OF NORTH EASTERN REGION (SHRI MANI SHANKAR AIYAR): Mr. Speaker, Sir, as I have

been personally quoted in the House, may I clarify to the House that subsequent to my remark, the 11th Five Year Plan with the overarching objective of inclusive

growth has been placed before the whole country by my Government and endorsed by every State Government including those run by Prof. Malhotra’s partners. He

says that there has not been a course correction. There has been.… (Interruptions)

PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA : This is a paper on record.

SHRI MANI SHANKAR AIYAR: Prof. Malhotra, please allow me to have my say.… (Interruptions) Sir, there was absolutely no call for him to refer to a statement I made

more than a year ago – it is more than a year ago – without taking into account every development since then.… (Interruptions)

PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA : It is available on Website.

SHRI MANI SHANKAR AIYAR: The fact that Shri Chidambaram has made available Rs. 1,20,000 crore to the social sector, it has never required a change.…

(Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Will you sit down? His statement will not go on record.

(Interruptions) …*

MR. SPEAKER: You had your say. You cannot speak twice.

… (Interruptions)

* Not recorded.

The stock market has collapsed. Millions of people have lost their life’s savings in the stock market crash. FIIs are withdrawing their investments from the stock

market. The confidence in India is on the wane. The CRIS rating agency has already downgraded India’s rating and has warned of further adverse impact due to the

rise in fiscal deficit and widening current account. NDA had left behind a booming economy, this Government has done all in its power to destroy it.

MR. SPEAKER: Do not record it.

(Interruptions) …*

MR. SPEAKER: Do not record anything.

(Interruptions) …*

MR. SPEAKER: Nobody can speak without my permission.

MR. SPEAKER: Please conclude now.

PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA : I will take only five minutes.

Please conclude now.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: I can only express my deepest anguish. It is a shameful conduct. Shri Malhotra, if it happens like this then I will call the next

* Not recorded.

speaker. Your own Party Members are disturbing.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: It is absolutely shameful. It applies to everybody.

MR. SPEAKER: Please conclude now.
MR. SPEAKER: Now, I will call the next speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Chaliha, please take your seat. This is disgusting.

SHRI RAHUL GANDHI (AMETHI): Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for letting me speak on behalf of the Government. Yesterday, while I was thinking about what I would say

in this House, I came to a simple conclusion. I decided that it is important at this point not to speak as a Member of a political Party, but to speak as an Indian. I also

decided… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: These comments are unfortunate. Nobody has any respect in this House. This is most objectionable. It is of bad taste.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Shahnawaz Hussain, you are a young man, please allow another young man to speak. आप बैठ जाइए। Do not make such snide remarks. यह आपको शोभा नहीं

देता है।

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: You are disturbing your own speaker.

… (Interruptions) [R14]

I decided, as I said, that I would not speak as a member of a political party but I would speak as an Indian.

AN HON. MEMBER: All are Indians.

SHRI RAHUL GANDHI : I completely agree with you that you are also an Indian and you should also speak as an Indian. I would go further to say that you do speak

as an Indian and I do not doubt that. So, I decided that what I would do is that I would take a step that a lot of our politicians normally do not do.

I decided that I will make a central assumption in my speech. The assumption is that everybody in this House, regardless of which party they come from, whether they

come from the BJP or the Shiv Sena or the Samajwadi Party or the BSP or the Congress Party, speak in the interest of the nation. So, I would like to say that this is

the assumption that I will make throughout my speech.

Yesterday, I thought about why we are meeting here today, why is it that this House needs to meet and I came to the conclusion that we are meeting because there is a

serious problem in India and the problem is our energy security.

AN HON. MEMBER: It is poverty.

SHRI RAHUL GANDHI : Poverty is directly connected to energy security and I will explain how. … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Will you decide what he will speak?

SHRI RAHUL GANDHI : In my speech, I will explain to the hon. Member as to how poverty is directly connected to energy security. Once again, I would request

everybody to give me ten minutes and to listen to me for ten minutes. That is all I ask for.

Three days ago, I went to Vidarbha and there, I met a young lady who has three sons. The young lady, Sasikala, a landless labourer, lives with Rs. 60 a day.

Her husband who goes to work in a field nearby earns Rs. 90 a day and with the total earning that they make, they have put their three children in a private school. I

spent an hour with these people. They live in a slum. I spoke to the sons and I spoke to the mother. The eldest son dreams of becoming a Collector, the middle son

dreams of becoming an engineer and the younger son wants to do a private job. When I asked Sasikala as to whether she thinks that her children will be successful

or not, she looked at me and said “Absolutely”. As I was walking out of the House, I noticed that there was no electricity in the house. I told the children that when I

was small, I used to study in the evening and how do[U15] they study.

The children pointed towards a little lamp, a brass lamp that was there. They said, “We study using that lamp.” This problem of energy security reflects itself everyday

with all of us; it reflects itself among the poor, like in the house of Sashikala; it reflects itself with industry; and it reflects among all Indians.

MR. SPEAKER: If any hon. Member does not want to hear his speech, you can go out. This running commentary is horrible.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI RAHUL GANDHI : Energy effects India; energy effects India’s growth; and energy is responsible for allowing us to grow at nine per cent and that growth is

responsible for allowing us to to create programmes to help poor, like those the BJP has done, like the PMGSY; and like those the Congress has done, like the

NREGP and guaranteed education.

The point that I am making here is if we do not secure our energy supply into the future, growth will stop and we will not be able to fight poverty which is

something that every single Member of this House wants to do.

I have said what the problem is. I would go back to Vidharba to see what the solution could possibly be. I would go to the house of another young lady called

Kalawati, who had nine children. (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Rahul Gandhi, carry on please.

SHRI RAHUL GANDHI : I would go back to Vidharba, to the house of Kalawati. … (Interruptions)

I would go to the house of Kalawati. I am glad you find that funny. But Kalawati is a person whose husband committed suicide. So, I would urge you to respect her. I

would take you to the house of Kalawati, which I also visited three days ago. Kalawati is a woman with nine children whose husband committed suicide three years

ago. Her husband committed suicide because he was dependent on only one crop, the cotton crop. When I asked Kalawati as to why her husband committed

suicide, her answer was that he was dependent on only one source of income. … (Interruptions) …*

MR. SPEAKER: Strike it out. Not to be recorded.[MSOffice16] [MSOffice17]

… (Interruptions)

SHRI RAHUL GANDHI : I asked Kalavati as to what did you do. Kalavati responded by telling me that I diversify … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: I think the Parliament of India is reaching its lowest position – Nadir!

… (Interruptions)

You pose to be very intelligent. Please sit down. I will note down your name. You will feel what happens.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Nothing will go on record.

(Interruptions) …*

MR. SPEAKER: I am requesting the hon. Member to control.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: You have to go out for a while.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: So what? Have you got a right to disturb? You please take your seat.

* Not recorded.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: You are not his informer. Please carry on.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: If any Member speaks without my permission, it will not go in the record.

(Interruptions) …*

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Pranab Mukherjee as the Leader of the House, Prof. Vijay Kumar Malhotra, I am going to fix a time for the voting. There will be no more

discussion. You please tell me when will it suit you?

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: I think let us fix the time.

… (Interruptions)

THE MINISTER OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS (SHRI PRANAB MUKHERJEE): After his speech is over, they can say whatever they want to say. … (Interruptions)

We listened to Shri Brajesh Pathak when he was speaking yesterday. I will request the hon. Members from the BSP to please resume their seats and allow this debate

to continue. … (Interruptions) Yesterday you spoke and today if the hon. Speaker permits you, you can speak. So kindly resume your seat and let his speech be

over. Let the debate continue and thereafter we will decide as to when we will have the voting. Why are you disturbing unnecessarily in the midst of the debate?

Please allow the debate to continue. … (Interruptions)

SHRI RAHUL GANDHI : Sir when I asked Kalavati … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Suddenly my hon. friend here has stood up. I do not know anything about what is happening. Anybody can stand up, anybody will disturb and

whatever they want to say, they will say! There is no question of decorum, no

* Not recorded.

rule and no procedure. I think the time has come when Members of this Parliament should face the electorate so that the country can give their verdict about these

Members as to what they are doing here. Shri Rahul Gandhi, yes, please carry on.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI RAHUL GANDHI : When I asked the widow lady as to how she resolves her problem, she said that instead of sowing one crop, she now sows three crops. She

told me how she bought two buffaloes and now has milk as a source of income. She also told me, most importantly, that she dug a little pond which she fills with water

and uses as an insurance policy when it does not rain.[a18]

So, the answers to our energy problem lie in… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Nothing is being recorded.

(Interruptions) …*

MR. SPEAKER: Do not record one word.

(Interruptions) …*

You are a responsible leader.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: I do not know anything.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: What is going on in this House?

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: All right, Shri Rahul Gandhi, you carry on your speech after the Lunch recess.

MR SPEAKER : Shri Rahul Gandhi to continue his speech.

SHRI RAHUL GANDHI (AMETHI): Mr. Speaker, Sir, this morning I spoke about two poor families. … (Interruptions) Yes, exactly. … (Interruptions)[H19]

I spoke about two poor families… (Interruptions)

… (Interruptions)

SHRI RAHUL GANDHI : I spoke to two poor families. One of them was called Mrs. Kala… (Interruptions) Mrs. Kala said that she had diversified her income sources

and she has used that to stabilize her family and bring up her nine children.

Sir, at the very least, nuclear energy is going to act like Mrs. Kala’s pond and it is going to act as an insurance policy for this country in times of need. At its

maximum, nuclear energy is going to act like Mrs. Kala’s main crop.

So, the problem is that the way our nuclear industry is positioned today, it is going to do neither. It is neither going to act as an insurance policy nor is it going to

act or have the potential to act as a fundamental source of energy. And, the reason it is not going to do so is because the hands of our scientists, the hands of our

establishment are tied; they are tied because they do not have fuel on one hand, and on the other hand they do not have investment and technology.

Sir, I am very proud to say that our Prime Minister Shri Manmohan Singhji has recognized both the problem and a potential solution. But it would be unfair of me

not to accept that Shri Vajpayee also saw the problem and also, in his time, worked on the solution. (Interruptions)

Now, I have stated and all of us know that there is a problem with regard to our energy security in this country, and that we need to think about it in the long

term. It is a problem that all of us need to solve working together.

As I said, senior leaders have also established that the way forward is diversification and reliance on more than one source of energy, a balanced portfolio that

includes nuclear, hydrocarbon, solar and wind among others.

But, Sir, it is not enough to identify a problem and a potential solution. The magic of what Shri Manmohan Singhji is doing is that within the problem, he has identified

an opportunity that is significantly larger than the problem itself. The opportunity our Prime Minister has identified is based on a simple fact. It is based on the fact that

over the next 30-40 years, two countries are going to use the largest bulk of new energy that comes on line. These countries – China and India – have the ability to

define the way the world’s energy moves.[r20]

Sir, what I am suggesting is that instead of looking at our energy problem as a problem, we start to look at our energy usage as an opportunity. Like a big buyer

who goes to any market, we have the ability to shape the global energy industry, and energy is like no other industry in the world. Energy, as I said earlier, is used

everywhere, in everything and in every aspect of economic and social life. Energy has destroyed nations and it has built nations.

Our old opponent, the British, grew to their prominence because they control coal. The United States today controls hydrocarbons. It has a large emphasis on

hydrocarbons, and we all know how powerful they are. What I am suggesting is that we start to think like a big country, like a powerful country. Instead of worrying about

how the world will impact us, we start worrying about how we will impact the world.

Many years ago, this country embarked on a path which many people did not believe in. We developed an industry called, IT industry and the telecom industry.

Very few people believed at that time that India would ever play a major role in this industry. Very few people believed that the computer would have anything to do

with empowering the poor and with changing the way this country worked. Yet, today all of us together see the impact of the computer. We see the revolutionary impact

that IT and communications has had on this country, and it is important that we do not forget this. It is important that we do not forget this because I believe we are at the

cross roads, very similar to the cross roads we were at when the decision on IT was to be made.

The decision here is not about three per cent energy or seven per cent energy. It is not about India’s usage of nuclear energy. If we look at the big picture here,

it is about whether India can become a global power in a type of energy that is going to be very important in the future. We all know the problems caused by

hydrocarbons. We know about pollution.

Earlier, one of the Members asked me to point out what is the connection between energy and poverty. We know the link between us depending on

hydrocarbons and prices in India today. Sir, when we think about energy, when we think about nuclear energy, we must think about the poorest in the country. Contrary

to what most people believed, when we thought about IT in this country, we were thinking about the poor in this country. It is something that is hard to cross because it

is counterintuitive. But one must not underestimate the connections between industry, between energy and between the poor.

Sir, I have taken a lot of time. So, I do not want to go on for ever. But I want to make one last submission. I am very happy this House is now listening to.

The difference between a powerful country and a country that is not powerful and does not have a similar impact on the world stage is that the powerful country thinks

about how it will impact the world. The country that is not so powerful thinks about how the world will impact it.[m21]

Sir, it does not matter which Government runs this country. Many Governments will run this country in the future. But it does matter how we think about our position

in the world. What is important is that we stop worrying about how the world will impact us, we stop being scared about how the world will impact us and we step out and

worry about how we will impact the world.

Sir, as I said earlier, I speak today not as a Congress person or a Congressman but as an Indian. I would like to say two other things before I conclude. The first

is that we are all building this country together. We might have different views about how this country should be built. We might have different opinions on what we

should do. But essentially we sit in this room together and we have to solve our problems together. This is what differentiates us and this is what gives us our true

power that any voice can be heard in this room, that any voice can disrupt any other voice in this room. I am being serious. It is uncomfortable for me. But I am very

proud of it that every voice can be heard in this country.

I would like to conclude by saying two things. The first thing is that we must never, ever let fear be our guide. We must never take decisions based on the fear of

the unknown or what is going to happen if we act. We must only act with one rule and that is courage. The second thing I would like to say is that we are a country of a

billion people; 70 per cent of us are young. I am old for this country; I am much above the average age. It is important to realise that this country is brimming with

confidence and brimming with self-belief. Another point we must never forget when we take decisions as leaders in this country is that we have to believe in that, in our

people and we have to have confidence in what we are capable of doing. We have to have confidence in what they are doing.

I think these are guides not only for Congress leaders, these are guides for every single Indian that when you do act, whoever you are, whatever opinion you

have, act with courage and act with confidence. With that, together, we can change this country and impact the world.

To conclude, I would like to support our hon. Prime Minister and like to say that he has shown tremendous courage and confidence in the Indian people and I

would also like to say and I say this as a youngster from this Party and as a youngster from that Party and all those other Parties that it does not matter what happens

here today. What matters is that we start working together and we together try to solve the problems of this country.

I would like to support the motion of the hon. Prime Minister. Thank you very much.

14.25 hrs.

MR. SPEAKER : Shri Anant Kumar to speak. You have only five minutes left for your Party’s time.

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR (BANGALORE SOUTH): How come, Sir?

MR. SPEAKER : The calculations are all there. You start speaking.

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : Sir, I rise to oppose the Confidence Motion moved by the hon. Prime Minister. Already the hon. Prime Minister has broken the consensus of

this country. Just now we were hearing that all the sections of this House should move together, unitedly and unanimously. But, unfortunately, under the stewardship of

the Prime Minister Shri Manmohan Singhji, their own UPA has fallen apart. He is unable to carry …(Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER : Please, do not disturb. I believe the hon. Prime Minister will reply at five p.m. and at 6 o’ clock the voting is there.

… (Interruptions)[k22]

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : Sir, since the day he has been advocating this Nuke Deal, party after party has left the UPA and all the comrades, 61 in number, have

withdrawn support. I do not know about yourself, Sir.

MR. SPEAKER: I have not withdrawn. I am not supporting you or him. I am supporting this House.

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : They have taken back the support. Many of their UPA partners have deserted him. Not only that, for the last four years, they have been trying

to work out a doctored mandate, a doctored vote here on the floor of the House. Also, in the last four years, they have lost State after State – Uttaranchal, Himachal

Pradesh, Bihar, Punjab, Gujarat and recently, Karnataka. We are hopeful that after Gujarat and Karnataka, they will lose this trust vote also today on 22nd July, 2008. That

is what is going to happen to them.

Sir, there have been advertisements in all the newspapers where they are promising people ‘Darkness to Light’, but I want to charge the hon. Prime Minister that

both, Dr. Manmohan Singh and Shrimati Sonia Gandhi have kept the whole country in darkness while announcing talks with the IAEA. When his colleague, the Minister

for External Affairs was addressing a News Conference here saying that they will go to IAEA only after the trust vote, the hon. Prime Minister of India was having ‘love in

Tokyo’ in Japan on-board! Already the talks on the agreement were on.

Sir, they have kept their allies in darkness, their supporting parties in darkness, their Minister of External Affairs in darkness. Shri Lalu Prasad is always in

darkness. (Interruptions) Sir, everybody in that alliance was in darkness regarding this nuclear deal and its implications.

I want to say that the Congress Government has not learnt a lesson from the earlier deal. In 1989, they had entered into Bofors deal and they lost the power.

After the Bofors deal, now they are trying to enter into this nuclear deal, which is against the national interest, and I predict that the people of the country are going to

punish them and going to throw this UPA Government out of power. They have not learnt any lesson from their earlier experience.

There is so much of confusion. Yesterday the hon. Minister of External Affairs was urging us to have patience. We are having patience. I do not know why they

are hurrying with this nuclear deal at the detriment of the national interest. When the National Security Adviser, Shri M.K. Narayanan, was interviewed, he said in his first

sentence “I am one of those who believe that if you are negotiating and you get everything you want, then obviously there is something wrong.” This is what the National

Security Adviser said in his interview. Then, there was the second question : “Just so that we are clear on this point, India can continue to use American supplies until

such time as replacements come even if they want it back.” Shri M.K. Narayanan replied “That is the sum and substance of what the text says. Whether that happens, I

am not God here…..’[SS23]

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : He has very clearly said that he is not God here. … (Interruptions)

Sir, I want to ask some straight questions to the hon. Prime Minister. … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: You better do it because not much time is left with you to speak on this issue.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : My first question to the hon. Prime Minister is this. Is this Government agreeing to put a permanent moratorium on all future testing through this

deal? He needs to come out very clean on this issue. I am asking this because there will be moratorium through the 123 Agreement as well as the Hyde Act. Is our

hon. Prime Minister agreeing for this moratorium?

Secondly, the Hyde Act also requires the US Government to extract from India a specific future date after which it will not produce weapon-grade Plutonium even

from its un-safeguarded reactors.

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : The hon. Prime Minister and the Government know that the father of our India’s nuclear programme, namely, Shri Homi Bhabha, had in the

1960s envisaged a three-stage programme for nuclear independence. This also involved establishment of pressurized heavy-water reactors as intermediary step,

which would eventually evolve to establishment of breeder reactors using Thorium. India has the second-largest reserves of Thorium, and 30 per cent of the total global

reserves. This is sufficient to ensure India’s nuclear independence for perpetuity. Why we are going ahead with Uranium-based nuclear deal with America and tying our

hands when this is the case?

My next question to the UPA Government is this. What are the compulsions due to which they are planning to spend crores of our scarce foreign exchange

reserves for technology and reserves that are not needed for our nuclear dependence?

Sir, I want some more time.

MR. SPEAKER: No, I am sorry. I would not give it to you. I cannot give it.

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : Does this Government believe that the US Government’s actions regarding the nuclear agreement between India and USA is going to be

subject to the provisions of the Hyde Act or not? Shri P. Chidambaram was saying that the Hyde Act has no bearing on the 123 Agreement or this nuclear agreement.

Therefore, I want the hon. Prime Minister to clarify to this House whether the nuclear agreement between India and USA is going to be subject to the provisions of the

Hyde Act or not.

The hon. Prime Minister had many-a-time assured this House that whatever treatment we get in this nuclear agreement will be equal, and a mutually beneficial

agreement between India and the USA. There are five nuclear-weapon States, namely, China, Russia, France, Germany and Britain. Does this agreement treat India as

having equal rights as the five nuclear-weapon States like the USA or is it going to be treated as a non-nuclear-weapon State?

I know that he does not have answers for all these questions. Therefore, I charge that this Government is mortgaging the National security and the nuclear option.

MR. SPEAKER: Please conclude your speech.

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : Sir, I only urge Dr. Manmohan Singh that when he took oath of office and secrecy as Prime Minister in 2004, he took the oath that : “I will

uphold the sovereignty and integrity of India”.[r24]

Today, here is a Prime Minister who is not upholding the sovereignty of India, I mean, he is not upholding the nuclear sovereignty of India. It is very unfortunate.

MR. SPEAKER: This is not the way to address. After all, he is the country’s Prime Minister. Anyone can be Prime Minister. He should be addressed with respect.

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : I have got due regard for him, but he should be true to his Oath.

MR. SPEAKER: Please conclude now, I have given you more than double the time.

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : There is a tall talk about energy security. Just now, sermons after sermons were given that there would be enough energy. We all know that to

get that energy, they require Rs. 8.0 lakh crore over a period of 30 years.

MR. SPEAKER: Please conclude now, Mr. Ananth Kumar.

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : Sir, I am concluding. There will be hardly six per cent of addition to the total energy. With this nuclear deal, I think, this UPA Government is

also dithering on another front, that is, price rise. I was going through the book written by the hon. Finance Minister. He wrote a book when he was in the Opposition, “A

View from the Outside: Why Good Economics Works for Everyone — by P. Chidamabaram.” I want to read out what he has said.

MR. SPEAKER: Not too many lines, I hope. You can read one or two lines.

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : I want to read out, Sir,

“In 1999-2000, the end of year inflation rate was 2.5 per cent, but in the next two years, it was only 5.5 per cent and incredible 1.6 per cent. At the end of 2002-03, the

rate of inflation is estimated at 4.4 per cent, and 52-week average has been estimated to be 2.6 per cent. ”

He quotes John Maynard Keynes, the famous Economist. Our Prime Minister is also an Economist. I quote:

“Inflation is the form of taxation which public finds hardest to evade and even the weakest Government can enforce when it can enforce nothing else.”

This is what Keynes has said. I am concluding, Sir. In a layman’s language, inflation is the worst form of taxation. It taxes the rich and poor alike. If the rate of inflation is

10 per cent, it robs a rich man of Rs. 1,00,000 out of his income of Rs. 10 lakh. It robs of a poor man Rs. 100 out of his income of Rs. 1,000.

MR. SPEAKER: There is not much time left, and I cannot give you any more time.

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : Sir, I am concluding. They are sermonizing. This Government has lost the mandate as well as the moral authority, and they are going to loose

the vote also to govern. There has been complete failure on all fronts. Therefore, I would request all the hon. Members that they should come out with a conscience

vote and vote against the Government and against the Confidence Motion.

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Lalu Prasad to speak now. The Prime Minister will reply after that.

15.00 hrs.

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Brajesh Pathak, he has not said one word about you.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Do not record.

(Interruptions) …*

(Interruptions) …*

15.02 hrs.
Shri Brajesh Pathak and some other Hon’ble Members then left the House

MR. SPEAKER: Do not record it.

(Interruptions) …*

* Not recorded.

MR. SPEAKER: You speak. Only your speech will be recorded.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA (BANKURA): Sir, I rise to oppose the Confidence Motion moved by the hon. Prime Minister.… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Silence please.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Yesterday, when the Leader of the House, Shri Pranab Mukherjee spoke, he gave some figures. But those figures were not correct.

He said that on the day when the left parties withdrew support, on that day when the Samajwadi Party extended its support to the Government, the UPA had the majority

and that the number was 276. This is what he said. The UPA has 220 Members. If we add the Members of the Samajwadi Party, it comes to 265. So, the Government

is still in minority. It is a minority Government. I would like to know from the Government whether a minority Government can go ahead with the deal. While intervening,

the Finance Minister, Shri P. Chidambaram said that by withdrawing support and by opposing the Confidence Motion, we are joining hands with the BJP. In fact, when

we met the President, when we submitted the list and the letter, we demanded that the Government should go in for Confidence Motion. [MSOffice32]

Let me remind the hon. Minister of Finance, Shri P. Chidambaram. He was in the House and he was in the Opposition in 1990 when there was a National Front

Government headed by Shri Vishwanath Pratap Singh.

Sir, Shri Advaniji started his rath yatra from Somnath to Ayodhya. Throughout the country, the communal atmosphere was created and hundreds of people were

killed. The communal riot took place in many parts of the country. Sir, when Shri Advaniji was arrested in Bihar and he was not allowed to proceed to Ayodhya, the

BJP withdrew support. When Shri Vishwanath Pratap Singh was the hon. Prime Minister, he was fighting against the communalism. He did not surrender at that point of

time. At that point of time, the Congress joined hands with the BJP and toppled that Government and thus destabilisation was created. Sir, this was repeated again. .…

(Interruptions).

THE MINISTER OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY AND MINISTER OF EARTH SCIENCES (SHRI KAPIL SIBAL): Do you remember that you were there with the BJP? …

(Interruptions)

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : You joined hands with the BJP and toppled the Government. … (Interruptions) Sir, it was again repeated in 1997 when Shri H.D.

Devegowda was the hon. Prime Minister and the Government was destabilized by the Congress. Subsequently, when Shri I.K. Gujral became the Prime Minister, this

Congress joined hands with the BJP to topple the I.K. Gujral Government. … (Interruptions)Today they are saying that we are joining hands with the BJP to vote against

the Confidence Motion moved by the hon. Prime Minister.

Sir, in 2004 Lok Sabha elections, the mandate of the people was not in favour of any political combination. But the people of this country had given a clear

mandate and that mandate was for the change of the policy, change of the outlook and change of the attitude.

Sir, the Left Parties supported this Government because of our commitment to fight back communal forces, to protect and strengthen India’s secular heritage, to

defend the peoples’ unity and rights of the minorities which have been under attack and severely eroded during the BJP led NDA.

15.38 hrs.

(Mr. Deputy-Speaker in the Chair)

Sir, we will not forget what happened in Gujarat in 2002. We supported this Government because of our deep concern against `shining India’ economic policies.

Now they are again referring to `feel good factor’ and `shining India’ growth rate which was there in 2003 and 2004.[a33]

The BJP used to say that. The Lok Sabha was dissolved. Election was held. The people of this country voted them out. The Congress Government is again following

the same path which the BJP Government, the NDA Government was following. The Shining India economic policies were destroying the lives and livelihood of the

people. That is why, we insisted on a Common Minimum Programme to bring relief to the people. The major issues of the Common Minimum Programme are yet to be

implemented. But today instead of the Common Minimum Programme of the UPA, it is the Common Minimum Programme of the Bush Administration to bring India into

a strategic embrace that the Government is implementing.

You cannot fight the communal forces by compromising the nation’s sovereignty. You cannot fight the communal forces by following pro-imperialistic economic

policies which have led to huge price rise and widespread disparities among the people.

The Finance Minister very eloquently gave the figures in regard to growth in various sectors – in agriculture, food production, production of pulses and others.

There is GDP growth but he has not mentioned about the condition of the people which is deteriorating. When there is growth to the extent of 9 per cent, what is the

Government claiming in its Report? It is not our Report. It is the Report of the Committee constituted by this Government. The Committee, in its last Report submitted to

the Government, has stated that 77 per cent of the population of our country is to depend on only Rs.20. We have 46 billionaires. One year back, there were 26

billionaires. Within one year, the number of billionaires increased to 46 whereas 77 per cent of the population is to depend on only Rs.20. This is not our Report but the

Report of the Committee constituted by the UPA Government.

Today, inflation has already touched 12 per cent. Prices of almost all the essential commodities are rising. The Government is not in a position to contain and

control the prices. The livelihood of the people of our country has become miserable. The family budget has increased. There has not been any increase in their

wages and earnings whereas there has been an increase in the prices of almost all the essential commodities.

We have made several suggestions. I would like the Prime Minister to place before this House the facts. When there was the Left-UPA Coordination Committee

which continued for two years, we made a number of suggestions to contain the price rise. We made four suggestions. One is: strengthening and universalisation of the

Public Distribution System.… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please conclude now.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : I have just started.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: I am sorry. Please conclude.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : I have not yet come to the nuclear deal which is the main issue. … (Interruptions) I will come to it within a minute. Please give me some

more time.[R34]

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: You started your speech at 3.31p.m.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Public distribution system had to be strengthened and universalized. That has not been done.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Mr. Salim, this is not a meeting place.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Forward and futures trading which was introduced by the NDA Government on all commodities has not been withdrawn. For several

times, the prices of petroleum products have been increased instead of reducing the duty and cess, abolishing import parity which was introduced by the earlier

Government. The Government has failed to take concrete measures to control and contain the prices of essential commodities. Farmers are committing suicide and it

is still continuing. The crisis for agricultural sector is accentuating. No concrete measures have been taken by this Government to ameliorate the sufferings of the poor

people of this country. Why have we withdrawn the support from this Government?

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Mr. Acharia, your party has already finished. Please conclude now.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : The Government was formed on the basis of the Common Minimum Programme.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : What we said was that we did not want anything from this Government. We did not join them even. We had extended our outside

support, but what we were demanding that the UPA Government should concentrate on implementation of pro-poor programmes under Common Minimum Programme.

In regard to foreign policy, nowhere it has been stated that we will have strategic relations with the United States of America. We are not anti-America. We are not

blindly opposing America. We want good relations with America, but there is a difference between good relations and strategic relations. When NDA was in power,

they diluted our non-alignment policy. We have seen when Iraq was attacked; I had been to Iraq 15 days before Iraq was attacked. I was there for seven days. When

we demanded in this very House to pass a resolution to condemn the attack on Iraq, we had to stall this House at least for three days. Then the resolution was

adopted, for the first time, in language of Hindi, and not in English. The word ‘condemn’ was not used, but the word ‘deplore’ was used.

Sir, when Shri Atal Bihari Vajpayee was the Prime Minister of India, he agreed to send troops to Iraq. At that time, the Congress Party and the Left Parties were in

the Opposition and because of our opposition he could not send troops to Iraq. So, we had the apprehension. Although strategic relation was mentioned in the Draft

Common Minimum Programme, we did not agree to it and then it was removed from it.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please conclude now.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Sir, I am coming to the main point.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: You have taken more time. What can I do?

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Sir, everybody has spoken for half-an-hour. Please give me 7-8 minutes. I will finish.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: No, I am giving you only two or three minutes more. You conclude within that time.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Sir, it was stated in the Common Minimum Programme:

“The UPA Government will pursue an independent foreign policy, keeping in mind its past traditions. This policy will seek to promote multi-polarity in world relations and

oppose all attempts at unilateralism.

The UPA Government will give the highest priority to building closer political, economic and other ties…”

The phrase ‘strategic relation’ has been mentioned nowhere in the Common Minimum Programme.

Sir, when the Joint Statement of Dr. Manmohan Singh and Mr. George Bush was made, the dialogue process started and there was an attempt to have strategic

relations with the United States of America. At that time, what did we find? We found that in the case of Iran, not once, but twice the representative of the Government of

India, at the behest of USA, voted against Iran. Our representative supported the Resolution moved by USA. At that time, there was a widespread protest throughout

the country in Mumbai, Lucknow and other places. In Lucknow, a huge rally was organized in which the Samajwadi Party President Shri Mulayam Singh Yadav and

leaders of Left Parties participated and addressed the rally. I have the copy of the fiery speech of Shri Mulayam Singh Yadav. What happened to this party now? अब क्या

MR. SPEAKER: Mr. Basu Deb Acharia, you address the Chair and please try to conclude quickly.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : When this nuclear deal was conceived and the draft of the Hyde Act was prepared, we expressed nine concerns. It is a fact that while

replying to the debate in the Rajya Sabha – there was a debate in this House also on a subsequent date – the Prime Minister gave an assurance that all our concerns

would be properly addressed. The Hyde Act was enacted in December, 2006. What we found was that our hopes were belied.[R35]

[r36] The assurances went haywire. Then subsequently a mechanism was evolved. A joint committee was formed. What was the outcome of the joint committee? The

resolution which was adopted in the first meeting of the Left-UPA joint committee was that the operationalisation of the Deal would depend on the outcome of the

findings of this committee.

I would like to know from the hon. Prime Minister whether the committee has come to any conclusion. How could the Committee come to any conclusion? On

16th of November, there was a written understanding that the Government wanted to go to the IAEA to start negotiations and it was assured that the Government would

proceed only after the text of the Agreement is placed before the committee and if the committee agrees, then only the government would go to IAEA and then NSG.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Thank you.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Sir, I have not completed.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: What can I do? You have taken more than sufficient time.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : When the committee met in the month of June, the Agreement was not shown to the committee. Without showing the text of the

Agreement, how can the committee come to any conclusion? The committee was told that it was a classified document. The same day, from the IAEA, it was stated

that there was no restriction and the Government can circulate this text.

On 8th July, in a Press Conference, the hon. External Affairs Minister stated that the Government would not go to IAEA before it takes the vote of confidence.

The day he made the statement, the Prime Minister announced and the Government went to the IAEA. If this is not betrayal, then what is this? This is not only a

betrayal and insult to us but also to the nation.

What is being said here? We have 230 billion

tonnes of proven deposit. It will continue for 200 years.[r37]

16.00 hrs.

By the end of Twelfth Five Year Plan, we have to import only 71 million tonnes. Shri Pranab

Mukherjee said yesterday that we will have deficit of 4 lakh MW of electricity by 2030. How can this deficit of 4 lakh MW be reduced to 30,000 MW with only 40,000 MW

of nuclear power? We will have to spend $ 200 billion.

We are comparing with China. I will have to reply to what they have said. They said – it is a very serious thing – that we are opposing the deal at the behest of China…

(Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Will you conclude or not?

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : When China pressurized us to sign NPT, to sign CTBT, we opposed it. Our Party, the Communist Party of India (Marxist), opposed it.

We said that NPT and CTBT are discriminatory; we cannot agree to that.… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Now, nothing will go on record.

(Interruptions) …*

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Now please sit down.

… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Now I would request Shri Mohan Singh ji.

… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Nothing will go on record.

(Interruptions) …*

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Acharia ji, please sit down; nothing is going on record.

(Interruptions) …*

16.04 hrs .

At this stage, Shri Ashok Argal and some other hon. Members came

and stood on the floor near the Table.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: The House stands adjourned to meet again at 1615 hours.

16.04 hrs .

The Lok Sabha then adjourned till Fifteen Minutes

past Sixteen of the Clock.

* Not recorded.
* The House stands adjourned till 2 p.m.

* Not recorded.

12.57 hrs.

The Lok Sabha then adjourned for Lunch till Fourteen

of the Clock[R38] .

14.00 hrs.

The Lok Sabha reassembled at Fourteen of the clock

(Mr. Speaker in the Chair)

16.19 hrs.

The Lok Sabha re-assembled at Nineteen Minutes past Sixteen of the Clock.

( Mr. Deputy-Speaker in the Chair)

… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER : The House stands adjourned to meet again at 5 p.m.

16.19 hrs.

The Lok Sabha then adjourned till Seventeen of the Clock.[H39]

17.01 hrs.

The Lok Sabha re-assembled at One Minute past Seventeen of the Clock.

( Mr. Deputy-Speaker in the Chair)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER : The House stands adjourned to meet again at 6 p.m.

17.01 hrs.

The Lok Sabha then adjourned till Eighteen of the Clock.

* Not recorded.

18.30 hrs.

The Lok Sabha re-assembled at Thirty Minutes past

Eighteen of the Clock.

(Mr. Speaker in the Chair)

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER : Kindly take your seats. Just a second.

… (Interruptions)

I remember what I have promised to you.

… (Interruptions)

18.31 hrs.

MOTION OF CONFIDENCE IN THE COUNCIL

OF MINISTERS – contd.

MR. SPEAKER : Hon. Members, there have been some requests for little time, two-three minutes, by the small Parties. Mr. Owaisi to speak now.

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN (BALASORE): Sir, will the Members be allowed to lay their speeches?

MR. SPEAKER : I will allow them. I am only trying to see how many I can accommodate. The hon. Prime Minister will give me a little time.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER : Mr. Owaisi, please speak.

SHRI ASADUDDIN OWAISI (HYDERABAD): Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you so much for giving me this opportunity. … (Interruptions)

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : Sir, the hon. Prime Minister should resign. This is a very sad day for the country. … (Interruptions)

It has become a great fashion that any and every decision of the Chair will be immediately challenged.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : No, sir. We are not challenging. … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER : You are challenging it. Everybody is challenging it.

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : No, sir. We are not challenging it. … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER : No, you are doing it. Knowingly or unknowingly, willingly or unwillingly you are doing it.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI GURUDAS DASGUPTA (PANSKURA): Sir, bad practice is being perpetrated. … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER : I have said that earlier. Do not take up the ‘holier than thou’ attitude. I am as much concerned. I am most concerned.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER : Please take your seats.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER : Mr. Owaisi, you speak. Only your speech will be recorded.

(Interruptions) …*

SHRI ASADUDDIN OWAISI (HYDERABAD): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the motion. … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER : Mr. Salim, what do you want? Just a minute.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER : I would like to know. He is gesticulating towards the Chair.

… (Interruptions)

MD. SALIM (CALCUTTA-NORTH EAST): No, Sir. … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER : You are gesticulating at the Chair. I would like to know – Mr. Salim, what do you want.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER : Please sit down. Let me hear from you.

… (Interruptions)

MD. SALIM : Sir, I want to know from the Chair. … (Interruptions) You are the custodian of this House. अध्यक्ष महोदय, ये जो लोग पैसा बांटने का काम कर रहे हैं, मैं उनके बारे में कहना चाहता हूं।

MR. SPEAKER : If you know, if you are personally aware who has given money to whom, then you come and say that from here.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER : You are taking too much of responsibility.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER : Mr. Owaisi, you speak.

… (Interruptions)

* Not recorded.

SHRI ASADUDDIN OWAISI : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I must thank the hon. Leader of the Opposition for his speech where he has exposed the Left and said they are acting

as the guardian of the angel. … (Interruptions) The reason we are supporting this Government is this. It is for one simple reason. … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER : Only Mr. Owaisi’s statement will go on record.

(Interruptions) …*

SHRI ASADUDDIN OWAISI : It is to stop the Leader of the Opposition or the BJP from coming to power. [k40]

Let me tell the House what this Government has done in the last four years. It has taken the initiative of creation of a Ministry of Minority Affairs and giving Rs.

1,000 crore to it. The last NDA Government in the Tenth Plan had given only Rs. 200 crore whereas this UPA Government had in 2007-08 allocated Rs. 500 crore which

has been increased in 2008-09 to Rs. 1,000 crore. This is a great example of what this Government stands for. … (Interruptions)

It is very unfortunate that the Left Front over here for no reason whatsoever have withdrawn their support. At the same time, the important point that I have to

mention over here is that this Government has given 17,000 scholarships to minority candidates as merit-cum-means scholarships. Funds have also been increased to

National Minorities Development Finance Corporation and funds have been given for pre-matric and post-matric scholarships. … (Interruptions)

This canard has been spread that Muslims are against this deal. Why has this been spread? I would like to know why the Chief Minister of UP and the Left Front

people did not say that the Hindus are against this deal and dalits are for this deal. Why only Muslims are being targeted over here? Why is it that we are being put in a

spot over here? … (Interruptions)

An international agreement is signed not between two communities or religions; it is signed between two countries. Yes, we have our reservations on this

* Not recorded.

deal. We know for a fact that it is going to have an impact on our independent Foreign Policy. It is for the Prime Minister that when such circumstances arise …

(Interruptions) Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is for the Prime Minister to clarify that our Foreign Policy’s independence will not be compromised and it will continue to be

independent. … (Interruptions)

I would like to say over here about the Left Front’s hatred towards the minorities is disguised and very well shrouded in their so-called liberalism. If they talk here

about our problems, the problems of Muslims, then I would like to know how there is only 2.1 representation of Muslims in Government service in West Bengal, which

has been ruled by them for 33 years, where 28 per cent Muslims reside. Is it their secularism? … (Interruptions) Do you want to support them? Do you want to vote for

them? At the end of the day, if tomorrow Shri Advani becomes the Prime Minister, who will suffer? It is me, not they. What have they lost? I have lost the Babri Masjid

and many people languishing in Gujarat’s jails.

I once again request you that this Motion has to be passed. I would request different parties, everyone of you that do not let BJP come into power.

* 1. I must thank the leader of opposition. Through his speech he has exposed the left.

2. The MIM Party has been with the UPA from 2004 as a Guardian Angel, justifying the Left front withdrawal of support. The MIM Party took note of steps taken by UPA

for the welfare of Minorities in general and Muslims in particular.

1. Abolition of the DRACONIAN POTA Act in which hundreds of innocent muslims throughout the country were arrested, and incarcerated in jails.

2. UPA Govt exempting the Minority Professional Colleges from 5% reservation in Professional colleges according to Article 30 of Constitution.

*…..* This part of the speech was laid on the Table.

3. Creation of National Commission for Minority Education

4. Sanctioning Ex-gratia to the families of Gujarat Riots.

5. Bhagalpur Riots

6. Creation of a Minority Affairs Ministry in 2006. Increase of its Budget from Rs 500 crore in 2007 & 2008 to Rs 1,000 crore in 2008 & 2009. It must be pointed out that

NDA had given only 200 crore in the 10th plan.

7. NDA Govt was making allocation to only 2 schemes for Minorities, NMFDC. M.Azad and in 5 years gave only Rs 20 crore for both the schemes. Whereas the UPA

Govt – MAEF corpus was increased from Rs 100 crore to Rs 250 crores in 2 years and in the 11th plan, Rs 500 crore is given. It will take the corpus to Rs 750 crores.

NMDFC, Authorised share capital Rs 750 crore. Four lakh people got loan from this corporation.

8. Formation of P.M.H.L.S as per Sachar Committee’s Report.

9. Three Scholarship schemes approved for students belonging to Minority Committee.

Merit Cum Means 17,177 – 413 in listed institutions like IIM, IIT, Students of 28 States in 2007 & 2008

Post Matric – 55,771 students in 2007 & 2008

2008 & 2009 MCM 20,000, Merit Cum Means

Post Matric – 2,50,000, Pre-matric 4 lakh– Minority Concentrated Districts

10. Special Development Initiative in MCD, 90 MCDID, which are backward in basic amenities & Socio-economic Parameter. 11th plan , Rs 3750 crores is the

total and earmarked 2008 & 2009. 500 crores is given in 11th plan. 12 Districts of West Bengal with 5 year plan – Rs 686 Crores

West Bengal – Why is the left withdrawing the support? This shows how Muslim localities are neglected in West Bengal.

11. Public Sector Bonds directed to open more branches in identified MCDs, 523 branches opened till 31.03.2008.

PSB to step up lending to Minorities from 9% to 15% over the next 3 years (2010)

2008 & 2009 target is 13%, MIM party strongly believes that there is a power shortage in our country particularly. The MIM party has strong reservation on the

Indo-US Civilian Nuclear Corporation that it will have an impact on our Foreign Policy. We have strong Reservations on this aspect. The MIM deters if on an

International Agreement, the Muslim Card is being played i.e., Muslim are angry, by vested interests.

(1) I would request the U.P Govt to show its real sincerity towards Muslims by issuing a simple statement and club the 2 criminal cases, relating to the Demolition of

B.M. Justine Jagdish Bhalla, on Feb 12 2001 Rai Barelly , Lucknow, in which L.K Advani is an accused.

(2) Why don’t you say that Hindus are supporting this Deal, or Upper Castes or Dalits are opposing this Deal. If Muslims opinion is so important then were muslims

consulted? They were killed and their economy destroyed by indulging in riots that took place in the country.

n If Muslim Anger is important then why was Babri Masjid Demolished

n Why TADA & POTA were used against muslims only?

Was I consulted by the Gujarat Carnage, If in the opinion of M.K Pandhe CPM M.P is right then how come in W.B. , 28% that is muslim population and Minority share in

Govt Employment is pathetic 2.1%. How come muslims were forgotten in Nandigram.

MIM believes that BJP & CPM are two sides of a coin, one has an open hatred towards muslims and other hatred is shrouded in its liberalism and in its Ideology.

Gujarat Cases, Government must implement Fatimi Sub Committee’s Report

The Fatimi Committee should be implemented final estimates of fatimi Sub Committee.

1. SSA, KGBU – Rs. 230 Crore

SSA – 1425.85 Rs. Crore

Front Literacy Programme – Rs. 750 Crore

Janshiksha Sanstha – Rs. 750 Crore

2. Madarsa Modernisation – 3755.85 Rs. Crore

Aligarh Muslim University – Rs. 625 Crore

AMU Expansion – 1153.55 Rs. Crore

Expansion Finance Committee – Rs. 500 Crore

Already cleared for Madarsa

Modernisation – 5 yr plan – Rs. 2278.55 Crore

Total – Rs. 5434.40 Crore

Ex Minister of Aviation talked about a “Perception, which Minorities, let me say that Minorities especially Muslims have a belief that BJP and its Prime Ministerial

Candidate can ever do justice to Secularism and Muslims.

We are supporting this motion for one reason only that is to ensure that L.K Advani and BJP should not come back to power which the CPM has brought them near to it.

*

OBSERVATION BY THE SPEAKER—contd.

(ii) Permitting Members to exercise their votes from inner Lobby

MR. SPEAKER : I wish to inform the hon. House that I have got a letter from the Bharatiya Janata Party in Parliament asking us for four hon. distinguished Members

being allowed to vote from the Inner Lobby. They are – our most respected Shri Atal Bihari Vajpayeeji, Shri Mahesh Kanodia, Shri Dharmendra and Shri Harishchandra

Chavan. The request is that they may be permitted to vote from the Inner Lobby as they are indisposed and not in a position to cast their votes through the automatic

voting recording machine.

In view of the condition of the hon. Members I have permitted them to exercise their vote by filling up vote recording slip from the Inner Lobby in whatever

manner that is convenient to the distinguished Members.

I am sure, all of you will join me in wishing respected Vajpayeeji and all the other hon. Members very good health, long life and early recovery.

OBSERVATION BY THE SPEAKER—contd.

(ii) Permitting Members to exercise their votes from inner Lobby

MR. SPEAKER : I wish to inform the hon. House that I have got a letter from the Bharatiya Janata Party in Parliament asking us for four hon. distinguished Members

being allowed to vote from the Inner Lobby. They are – our most respected Shri Atal Bihari Vajpayeeji, Shri Mahesh Kanodia, Shri Dharmendra and Shri Harishchandra

Chavan. The request is that they may be permitted to vote from the Inner Lobby as they are indisposed and not in a position to cast their votes through the automatic

voting recording machine.

In view of the condition of the hon. Members I have permitted them to exercise their vote by filling up vote recording slip from the Inner Lobby in whatever

manner that is convenient to the distinguished Members.

I am sure, all of you will join me in wishing respected Vajpayeeji and all the other hon. Members very good health, long life and early recovery.

MS. MEHBOOBA MUFTI (ANANTNAG): Hon. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the Confidence Motion brought in by the hon. Prime Minister. As Shri Lalu Prasad rightly

said, many Members from the Treasury side as well as the Opposition do not know much about the nuclear deal. I happen to be one of them. But after listening to

people from both the sides, I have come to the conclusion that BJP, which has been the pioneer of the deal, is opposing the deal only because they would like to take

the credit for the deal. Since they are not in power, they are opposing the deal. … (Interruptions)

Sir, they are talking about renegotiating the deal. They are not concerned about the positives of the deal. What they are talking about is the ban on the nuclear …

(Interruptions)

I rise to support the Confidence Motion brought by the Hon’ble Prime Minister. As Laluji rightly said that many people, many members both among treasury

benches and the opposition do not know much about the Agreement. I happen to be one of them.

* But gathering from what I have heard since yesterday from both the sides, I am able to make something of this. BJP said that they are not against the Deal but

would like to re-negotiate it. And they, at the same time, have called the Agreement as anti-national. It is a fact the deal has been pioneered by BJP and I am sure they

would like to be the ones to take the credit for implementation of the deal which they are not able to do since they are not in power. Regarding the reservations that the

BJP seems to have is about the Hyde Act which they say is going to take away the power from the country to go for any future-nuclear test. Once there was a time

when going nuclear bomb testing was something to be thought as pride of the nation and also considered necessary to

*…..* This part of the speech was laid on the Table.

thwart any external aggression. But since we have already joined the nuclear club and we are a nuclear country, we already have taken enough pride if one says; it is

also a deterrent against the external aggression. But today our challenge is less from the outside and more from inside. I would not mind if we don’t burst any bombs in

future, but are able to provide at least minimum basic things to our population who are living below poverty line. We still have lot of disparity between the haves and

have-nots and that is a bomb ticking inside our country. The difference between haves and have nots is growing every day. We have people whose pet dogs get

imported food to eat, are treated in best animal hospitals, but we still have millions of people who are born, bred and dead without a roof on their head and without two

meals, which is a dream for them. We still have not been able to provide basic necessities like roads, water, electricity, healthcare, education to a good portion of our

population but are very eager to go for nuclear blast just to prove to the world that we are a powerful nation with the most under nourished population. So BJP’s

objection seems to be more of a superficial level rather than anything concrete. But as far as other parties, more so Communists are concerned I do have my

apprehensions about the deal what impact it is going to have on our foreign policy. I would definitely like the Hon’ble Prime Minister to reassure the House that our

foreign policy is going to remain independent as was initiated by our late Prime Minister Pundit Jawaharlal Nehru during his tenure. We need to know that we can still

have relations with the world as we deem fit, especially with our neighbouring States, majority of them, happen to be the Muslim States. We would like to know that we

are not in any way stopped or obstacles are not raised in exploring any other avenues of energy for our country. We would like to see that Gas pipeline with Iran does

not get affected. We would like to stand by the Palestine side for their demand for independent State as has been our policy since independence, I am sure that

Hon’ble Prime Minister Manmohan Singh who has put his weight behind the deal along with UPA partners has definitely a very good reason to do so. I believe the deal

will be good for the country which means good for all whether it is Muslim, Hindu, Sikhs etc. This I say because the deal is also being projected as anti-minority and I

wonder something which is good or bad for the country can be good for one section of the society and bad for the other. That seems to be a mere propaganda. No

doubt majority of the Muslim and muslim countries are against the policies of America but that has not stopped millions of Muslims from all over the world to do

business with America, live there, serve there and enter into all kinds of business transactions there. So I stand by the Prime Minister also because UPA is a secular

front and I do not want to do anything that facilitates the way for the return of communal forces to the centre stage. Besides this I also take this opportunity to say

something on the controversy regarding the Shrine Board issue since it has been taken up by the Leader of the Opposition Mr. L.K. Advani and Mr. MaHiotra. I would

like to put it on record that the people of Kashmir have been receiving the Yatrees to the Amarnath for around 150 years. It was the people and the Government of

Jammu & Kashmir who have been taking care of this Yatra all through this time. But unfortunately after the creation of Shrine Board during the NDA’s regime when BJP

and National Conference were in coalition as NDA, this Board was given unlimited powers by the law passed that the Board could make, residential houses and

sanitation and also regulate the Yatra. And with the arrival of last Governor on the scene and his aggressive stance, the Board started getting into controversy. The

Board had been demanding transfer of 3600 canals of land to the Shrine Board which the Government in 2003 under my father Mufti Mohammed Sayed refused. After

the transfer of power to the Congress Chief Minister this proposal was again brought to the Cabinet and was refused by the PDP ministers.

Finally, the then Chairman of the Board who had very good relations with the then Congress Chief Minister pursued him to at least divert 800 canals of land
temporarily for the construction of toilet facilities and other sheds for
the Board. This being the forest land, people came to protest against
this transfer for construction of toilets as it would be an environmental
hazard. It was just a concern for the environment that brought people
to streets. The Cabinet after having done this, comes the press
conference of the CEO of the Shrine Board who claims that the land
transfer is not temporary but is the property of the Shrine Board. He
also raised issues of Muslim Pollution and Hindu Pollution which
communalised the whole thing. Therefore the Government was
asked to revoke the order which it ultimately did but after 6 people
lost their lives. So I ask the Parliament, which government in the
country transfers thousands of canals of wild life land to a Shrine or a
Temple anywhere? Why should the J&K be expected to transfer land
to a Shrine when the government is capable of making all the
arrangements? So please do not communalise the situation. The
J&K is a very secular State. Let it be like that. I would also like to inform Mr.Malhotra who talked about giving Haj subsidy to muslim of Kashmir as a favour, to consider

restoring our old route through Iran and we can go and will perform Haj and won’t need any subsidy of GOI. *

MR. SPEAKER: Shrimati Maneka Gandhi. Are you not speaking?

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Those hon. Members who want to lay their written speeches, they can do so.[SS41]

SHRI OMAR ABDULLAH (SRINAGAR): Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I think that it is a matter of great misfortune for Parties like mine. … (Interruptions) I do not know

whether the Rs. 1 crore that was shown here is genuine or not. But I think that it is extremely unfortunate that if nothing else, this Rs. 1 crore is seeking to buy the silence

of Parties like mine who are not being given an opportunity to speak in a correct manner in this House. … (Interruptions)

I have been a Member of this House for 10 years, and I have never disturbed this House in these 10 years. I have sat with them and I have sat on this side, and I

have never disrupted a speaker and yet here they do not have the courtesy to listen to what I have to say. … (Interruptions)

I am a Muslim, and I am an Indian. I see no distinction between the two. … (Interruptions) I see no reason why I, as a Muslim, have to fear a deal between India

and the United States of America (USA). … (Interruptions) This is a deal between two countries. It is a deal between, we hope, two countries that in the future will be two

equals. … (Interruptions)

Sir, the enemies of Indian Muslims are not the Americans, and the enemies of the Indian Muslims are not ‘deals’ like this. The enemies of Indian Muslims are the

same enemies that all the poor people of India face, namely, poverty and hunger, unemployment, lack of development and the absence of a voice. It is that we are

against, namely, the effort being made to crush our voice. … (Interruptions)

I am not a Member of the UPA, and I do not aspire the Membership of the UPA. But I am extremely unhappy with the way in which my friends in the Left have

taken on this self-imposed position of being the certifiers of who is secular and who is not. … (Interruptions)

Until a few years ago, I was a part of the NDA and I was a Minister with them. The same Left people considered me as a political untouchable, and they

considered me an outcaste because I was a part of the NDA. Today, the same Left people are telling me that all secular Parties must unite with the BJP to bring down

this Government. … (Interruptions)

I made a mistake of standing with them once. I did not resign on the question of Gujarat when my conscience told me to do so, and my conscience has still not

forgiven me. I need not make the same mistake again. … (Interruptions)

* SHRIMATI JHANSI LAKSHMI BOTCHA (BOBBILI): Sir, I thank you very much for giving me an opportunity to speak on confidence motion introduced by the

Government headed by our beloved Prime Minister Sri. Man Mohan Singhji.

I rise to support this motion and to urge all parties and their leaders
to support this confidence motion.

The UPA Government, Headed by our honourable Prime Minister Sri. Manmohan Singhji, has conducted itself, very well in the last four years, and taking all decisions

in our country’s interest. Not even a single decision was taken which is against our country’s interest. The government has taken a few politically unpopular decisions

like recent price rise of Petroleum products, only keeping in view, the national interests.

I gave this example only to stress that our honorable Prime Minister Sri. Manmohan Singhji, an economist and a visionary, keeps the country’s interest first and is not

interested to be in power at any cost. We all should be proud of this.

Respected colleagues, we all know that this special session was necessitated, as our communist friends have withdrawn their support to UPA government, opposing

the nuclear agreement with U.S.A. As we have observed in the discussions in the house, they allege that the nuclear deal is against National interest, as the

agreement, in their opinion, is likely to interfere with India’s foreign policy, besides restricting the nuclear deterrent option. Is it really so?

Here now I want to present, few facts and figures, for the focus and kind attention of our opposition friends.

As per the 2007/ 2008 UNDP Human development Report (HDR)

• It is a matter of grave concern that about 45% of India’s population (481 million) still does not have electricity; this is the largest number for any country in the

world.

• More than 40% of world’s population without electricity lives in India. China

* Speech was laid on the Table.

which was placed equally with India hardly 15 years ago has ensured that every

citizen has electricity connection now.

• Our existing per capita electrical consumption is just 20% of world average and 6% in comparison to the per capita consumption of the developed countries.

• Similarly, we consume 2 million barrels of petroleum crude per day, as against 7 million barrels of China and 20 million barrels of US, which has only 28% of

India’s population.

• Energy consumption levels are an important indicator of economic and social growth of a country. India’s per capita electricity consumption is 618 units per

annum, as against 14,500 units of US and 1600 units of China. In absolute terms, we have done a good job in terms of increasing the power generating capacity from

1500 MW in 1947 to one lakh forty five thousand MW in 2008. But this is hardly enough to meet the ever growing demand.

• China which had similar capacity as ours in 1978 has now progressed to 4 lakh MW. Despite this, China’s per capita consumption is only 15% of that of the

developed countries.

• India occupies 128th position in terms of human development index, which is the weighted average index of various parameters like health, education,

sanitation, empowerment, social amenities, human rights etc.

It is now globally recognised that faster economic growth is the only remedy for eradicating poverty and for stepping up of human development.

We need a growth rate of 9% per annum in the next 50 years to become a developed nation.

For this, -we need to step up the electrical energy very substantially. The first charge that any growth process will have is on energy – be it electrical or otherwise. We

need electricity to produce steel, cement, aluminium, for lifting water for agricultural purposes, for our lighting, for running our trains etc.

Our per capita power consumption will have to go atleast up to the world average, which is 3000 units per annum. Without this, we can never end poverty nor can we

hope to provide any decent standard living to our people. The posterity will never excuse us if we give up this option only to please a few desperate opposition

political parties. There is urgency to broad base our energy basket, which is why we are actively pursuing the nuclear deal with U.S., as it enables us to access nuclear

fuel and new technologies, on which there was long time embargo.

The only known commercially viable sources of electrical energy in the country are coal based thermal units, hydro power projects and nuclear power. It will take

atleast 20 years from now for solar and wind energy to become commercially competitive, given their very high capital costs and low plant load factors.

There is a serious limitation for expanding hydro electric capacity any further, except perhaps, in the Himalayan States. Hydro electricity, apart from being highly

seasonal, is also unreliable and has very low PLF of 40%, compared to more than 80% achieved in both coal based thermal units and nuclear stations.

The natural gas available in various river basins can be best used as substitute for Naphtha in the production of Urea for our fertilizers and as CNG substituting Petrol &

Diesel. It can also be used as substitute for LPG.

We are therefore left with the option of coal and nuclear energies for augmenting our additional electrical energy requirements. Although India has 6% of the world

reserves of coal, these are simply not sufficient. Besides, Indian coal suffers from high ash content and high sulphur content, making its excessive use environmentally

unsustainable. We are already depending on imported coal for our existing plants. This will go up exponentially in next 3 to 4 years when an additional 30,000 MW coal

based power projects are coming up at various ports in the country, mainly depending on the imports.

We have seen as to how a marginal increase in the demand for petroleum products has in the last four years resulted in an increase of 280% in their prices. Same thing

is likely to happen for coal. We need to add atleast 100,000 MW of power capacity in the next 10 years, in addition to the above 30,000 MW, if only our economy has to

continue to grow at 9% per annum.

Imagine what will be the coal prices and what will be the level of emissions. We therefore have to look for nuclear energy, which has many advantages like; no

emissions are associated with the production of electricity and low per unit cost.

Here I want our comrades to think twice, because china has signed the 123 agreement with U.S. and reaping all the benefits of nuclear energy. Will china signs it, if it is

against their country’s interest? Definitely No.

So my dear communist friends just think with your heart. Don’t follow double standards. The whole nation is observing us all. Just believe that the nuclear 123

agreement is in our favour.

Coming to our BJP friends, they themselves while in power, have initiated and negotiated the nuclear agreement with U.S. The UPA government just honoured this and

proceeding further to take the agreement to the logical conclusion. The opposition of BJP now, is just a political opportunism.

If we observe the activities of opposition leaders, as openly declared by them and as reported in the electronic media and print media, they have a single point

agenda, i.e to bring down the Government headed by Sri. Manmohan singhji.

What next, they have no answer. I sincerely urge all the opposition members to change their stand and vote in favour of the confidence motion. This gives lot of

credibility to our country in the comity of nations and makes our flag fly high.

To conclude I want to say that, when we undertake a task we have to cross 3 stages- insult, opposition, & acceptance. Fools stop at 1st, Losers stop at 2nd, Winners

cross 3rd.

I am very sure at the end of this discussion we all will stand as winners.

With these words I support the confidence motion.

* Speech was laid on the Table.

* DR. C. KRISHNAN (POLLACHI): I am speaking on behalf of Marumalarchi Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam headed by Thiru. VAIKO Leader of the Tamilians.

We wish to state that the Indo – US Nuclear agreement in the present form is not for the betterment and progress of our Country.

The high prices of Fuel, food materials and inflation have caused great worry and distress for the people. Hence we oppose the motion seeking confidence over the

Council of Ministers headed by Dr. Manmohan Singh Ji, Hon’ble Prime Minister of India.

In the agreement:

Article 5.2 spells the following as referred in U.S. regulations as SNTs which restricts transfer of technology and equipment relating to reprocessing, enrichment and

heavy water production.

Even after investing (Billions) of dollars to set up new reactors, generating

nuclear power will contribute just about 7 per cent of the energy requirements by 2020.

First, we will shell out huge sums into the hands of private foreign manufacturers of nuclear reactors – mainly French, Russian and American.

And the estimated cost per Unit of N Energy will be very high as compared to coal, gas and even crude oil.

How much is the capital cost of imported reactor-based nuclear plants?

The cost of electricity using just the capital cost of the plant alone for imported reactors, would be Rs 3.65 per unit and as in the case of Kaiga, the operating cost

including fuel, heavy water and other cost was computed by Nuclear Power Corporation to be Rs.1.48.

If we add that to the cost of capital, the cost of electricity becomes Rs. 5.13 per unit of Nuclear Power.

This is more than twice that from coal fired plants which is Rs. 2.20 to 2.60, depending on their distance from the coal mines.

To find more coal reserves or mine more efficiently, requires far less money than buying expensive reactors from Washington, France and Russia.

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If we take indigenous reactors the capital cost of nuclear plants would be about two thirds of imported reactor based plants. Nuclear power from Indian reactors would

therefore cost quite less than that from imported reactors. Even then, it will be somewhat more expensive than that of coal-fired plant.

We cannot believe that the US will patronizingly oversee the supply of fissile material by other countries even after India conducts another nuclear test?

Dr. Manmohan Singh has been forced to risk our government’s sovereignty.

The concerns were related to uninterrupted fuel supply to the reactors if India had agreed to place under safeguards in “perpetuity”, in view of our experience of the

Tarapur Atomic Power Station (TAPS) when the U.S. stopped supply of fuel to it after India conducted its Pokhran-I nuclear tests.

If the present agreement becomes operative, India could import fuel and heavy water for the Nuclear Reactors imported from America France and Russia

More pertinently, reprocessing rights for the safeguarded spent fuels are not automatic if the source country is the U.S. since such transfers would be governed by the

123 Agreement, which does not grant automatic processing rights.

The ‘123 Agreement’ so-called because it will amend Section 123 of the U.S. Atomic Energy Act of 1954, (titled “Cooperation With Other Nations”), which establishes a

basis for cooperation as a pre-requisite for nuclear agreements between the U.S. and any other country,

Certain clauses even threaten our national sovereignty. Article 14 grants

“the U.S. has a unilateral right to require the return by the other party of any

nuclear material, equipment, non-nuclear material of components

transferred under this agreement and any fissionable materials produced

through their use. The “right of return” mentions “the removal from the

territory or from the control of the other Party” (Article 14.5) of this

equipment and materials rather than their return”.

This part of agreement is to cut down our freedom to produce anything from Nuclear Energy to reprocessing the spent fuel of imported 40 Gwe.

The U.S. President is required to annually report to the U.S. Congress

“Whether India Is fully and actively participating in U.S. and international efforts to dissuade, isolate, and if necessary sanction and contain Iran if it pursues indigenous

efforts to develop Nuclear capabilities. These stipulations in the Act constitute an intrusion into our independent decision-making and policy matters”.

If this is our strategy where are we being taken and dragged by U.S., what happened and where is our policy if Non-alignment, well kept and brought up by late

respectful Prime Ministers Shri. Nehru ji and Indira Gandhi Ji, why should we poke our Nose into IRAN?

Under these circumstances we Marumalarchi Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam headed by Thiru. Vaiko Leader of world Tamils oppose the motion seeking confidence on

the Council of Ministers headed by Dr. Manmohan Singh, Hon’ble Prime Minister of India.

* SHRI ADHIR CHOWDHURY (BERHAMPORE, WEST BENGAL): Sir, I rise to support the Motion of Confidence moved by the Prime Minister, Dr. Manmohan Singh.

There is a lot of confusion in the air. Speculations are being made in the media regarding the Government’s survival a few days from now. All kinds of allegations are

being leveled against politicians making us a laughing stock before the nation.

I can say that it is not a question of our Government’s survival because that is a forgone conclusion. We must survive, and we will survive. At the same time, in my

opinion, it is one of the darkest hours in the history of Indian democracy as attempts are being made to destabilize our Government over an issue which is so trivial and

which has nothing to do with the day-to-day struggle for the survival of the teeming millions.

This has been brought about by a motely group of fossilized minds in the Indian politics who call themselves Left. Like everyone else, I have come to Delhi confused.

Having been a part of this debate on Trust Motion, my confusion is now getting confounded. I simply do not understand what this debate is all about and why the Left

are behaving the way they like. We understand one is opposed to nuclear power per se; opinion is divided in our country as well as globally. There are some

people, well-informed and well-intentioned people, who believe that the nuclear power has no place in the civilized world. I personally respect that opinion, even

though I do not quite agree with them. But the Indian Left have never been opposed to the nuclear power. In fact, till the other day, Budhadeb Bhattacharya, Chief

Minister of West Bengal, was pressurizing the Central Government for a nuclear power plant at Hopipur coastal area of Midnapur district in West Bengal. Till the other

day, some of the CPM MPs were asking for a nuclear power plant in the

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Sunderbans of West Bengal. Now my humble question is this. Where are you getting the nuclear power from? Are you getting it from the heaven, from the Kremlin,

from the Great Wall of people in Beijing? Even the Russians and the Chinese, the father and the mother land of Indian Communist, are advising us to go ahead with the

Nuclear Agreement. They are the ones who have assured us cooperation once the nuclear deal becomes a reality and India’s nuclear isolation ends for ever. If this is

the position of whatever is left of the Left in the world, what is the problem of the Indian Left? Why are they behaving like ‘dinosaurs’? Why are they refusing to accept

the reality? What is bugging them? What is wrong with M/s Karat and Bardhan company?

Sir, I am not saying all this to lampoon the Comrades of either Ajay Bhawan or A.K. Gopalan Bhawan. I am asking this question in all seriousness as I feel that herein

lies the root of today’s turmoil. By this, I mean the mindset of a section of Indian Left, a section that is led by the likes of Prakash Karat and A.B. Bardhan, a section that

has no accountability to the people as they never face elections and never been in Parliament and arrogate unto themselves the audacious power to decide the fate of

the people. For Mr. Prakash Karat, an armchair Communist from Scotland, the United States is the devil incarnate, which can do nothing right just as the Communist

Party of China can do nothing wrong. Mr. Karat is holding his own Party a hostage to this time-worn insipid and irrelevant ideological bigotry by using his position in the

Party and the organization. It is not Dr. Manmohan Singh our beloved Prime Minister who is responsible for the chaos and the turmoil that is prevailing; it is Mr. Karat

who should take the blame for unnecessarily rocking the boat when it was sailing smoothly to reach its destination. The Party’s most respectable patriarch, Mr. Jyoti

Basu is keeping mum about the misadventure of his young comrade ‘Karat’. Mr. Subhas Chakraborty, the Transport Minister and the protégé of Basu has already fired

a salvo against his party’s leadership for taking this course of suicidal action.

I expected to see in this House and in this particular Session, Mr. Somnath Chatterjee sitting with his colleagues and opposing the Government. I expected him to

blast our Government either yesterday or today like his erstwhile Comrades. But, despite seemingly insurmountable pressure, Mr. Chatterjee has held this ground and

continues to be the hon. Speaker of the Lok Sabha. On behalf of all right thinking Members of this House, I want to especially congratulate Mr. Chatterjee for his

exemplary show of courage at an hour when the country most need of. I beseech all my fellow Members to join me in giving a fitting voice of thanks to Mr. Chatterjee

for choosing the right course of action at the cost of his long Party career. Mr. Chatterjee, I am prepared to vacate my seat for you in Berhampore if you choose to join

our Party and contest the next Lok Sabha elections against the CPM in West Bengal.

Coming back to the moot point, I want to reiterate the fact that Indian Left is now standing at the crossroads of history. They are themselves confused with the

prescription that they should follow to keep pace with the changing realities of our time; while on the one hand we see Budhadeb Bhattacharya going ahead his way to

woo American capital for the welfare of West Bengal, his Comrades in Delhi are singing a different tune. While in West Bengal, Budhadeb Bhattacharya is trying to

emerge as an Indian version of Deng-Sio-Ping claiming that Global Capital has no colour; his friends in Delhi are still acting as a ghost of Stalin. In my humble opinion,

what we are witnessing today is essentially a reflection of the confusion that is plaguing the Communist Party of India. This is a problem of their mindset, of their inability

to come to terms with post-Berlin wall world. The confusion is not likely to be cleared unless the Left realizes its mistake and changes its course of action.

The History of the Indian Left is replete with mistaken judgements at the crucial historical juncture. In the history of India, Left did not participate in the Quit India

Movement, termed our Independence in 1947 as fake. But it must be said in all fairness that they also acknowledged their Himalayan blunder after the passage of time.

I therefore, appeal to the Left Members in this House to follow in the footsteps of their leader Mr. Somnath Chatterjee and not to fall in the ideological trap laid down by

Mr. Karat.

There is no such thing as free lunch. Sir, 31 nations are utilizing nuclear reactors to help meet their electricity generation. Total 443 commercial nuclear generating units

operate on a global basis. Their capacity is 369.9 gigawatts which is equal to 68000 tonnes of uranium fuel, that is 16 per cent of world’s energy. These displace 2.5

billion metric tonnes of CO2 per year. They minimize global greenhouse gas emissions, total 12,000 tonnes of spent fuel is estimated. Thirty-one reactors will be

added by 2013. China is planning to spend $ 65 billion on nuclear energy related consumption by 2020. France does not have oil but it has ideas. National rallying cry

of France. I would suggest the govt to build fuel reprocessing facilities with surplus capacity to meet our own needs as well as international demand.

Out of the 18 uranium producing countries, we produce from mines 230 tonnes. The first country is Canada and second is Australia. India needs electricity. Coal

provides for over half of India’s electricity requirements but the nation’s coal reserve is limited. We have 14 small and eight mid-sized nuclear reactors. We seek

complete independence in the nuclear fuel cycle. Indian Uranium reserve is 54,000 tonnes. We have to liberate ourselves from technology-denial regime and

politico-diplomatic obstratism since 1974. Our reactors worked inefficiently for lack of fuel and equipment. Safeguarded will not be inspected by US inspectors but by

IAEA.

For communists in India Congress’ Purna Swaraj call was seen as sham efforts to gain influence over the masses by those who were working for a compromise with

British imperialism. Nehru and Bose were described as agents within the national movement. In 1935, the Communist Party was reorganized under P.C. Joshi, and

being faced with the threat of Fascism. The Seventh Congress of the Communist International meeting at Moscow in August 1935 radically changed its earlier position

and advocated the formation of a United Front with socialists and other anti-Fascists in the capitalist countries and Nationalist movements in colonial countries.

Once again the communists participated in the activities of the mainstream of the national movement led by the National Congress. The theoretical basis for the change

in the Communist policy in India was laid in early 1936 by a document popularly known as Dutt-Bradley thesis. According to the thesis, the National Congress could

play a great part and foremost part in the work of realizing the anti-imperialist people’s front. In 1938, it went further and accepted that the Congress was the central

mass political organization of the Indian people ranged against imperialism. In 1939, P.C. Joshi wrote in the Party’s weekly ‘National Front’: “The greatest class struggle

today is our national struggle of which Congress is the ‘main organ’.” Thirteen communists members of A.I.C.C. opposed the quit India resolution moved by Mahatma

Gandhi.

Mahatma Gandhi said I quote “I congratulate the 13 friends, who voted against the resolution. In doing so, they had nothing to be ashamed of. For the last 20 years,

we have tried to learn not to lose courage even when we are in a hopeless minority and are laughed at.” We have learned to hold on to believe in the confidence that

we are in the right and to cultivate this courage of conviction for it ennobles us and raises the moral stature.

In 1947, the communists recognized that India become free and advised all the progressive forces to rally round ‘Nehru’ against the reactionary communal and

pro-imperialist forces. Later, under Soviet guidance, it declared in December 1947 that India’s independence was fake, 15th August was the day of national betrayal,

Nehru the stooge of imperialism, Constitution the charter of slavery.

In 1953, in Madurai Congress, the Communist Party said that the Government was following independent foreign policy. In 1956, in Palghat Congress, the party

accepted that India won independence in 1947, now a sovereign republic. In 1958, in Amritsar Congress, the party declared that it was possible to advance to

socialism through peaceful and parliamentary means. In 1961, in Vijayawada Congress, the Party decided to follow a policy of struggle as well as unity towards

Congress

The CPM said that Indian Constitution was anti-democratic and must go lock, stock and barrel and use the Constitution as an instrument of struggle. They tried to break

it from within. Communists failed to take up the leadership in the nation-building and social development of the nation as a whole from economic development to

spreading of education, scientific temper, science and technology and productivity to the fight against the caste system, equality and the guarding of the

independence, integrity and security of the nation.

There is China’s cooperation with Pakistan for strengthening of its military capacity both conventional and nuclear. Gwadar Port in Pakistan has provision for basing

Chinese naval surface vessel and submarines with access facility to Arabian sea. There is cooperation with Myanmar in use of Coco Island for obtaining data on India’s

missile and space programme. There is 1500 km. long road that is to be used as transportation route to Arunachal; building railway line between Lasha and Germo

enhancing missile divisions targeting India. The road network is directed to the McMahon Line. But communist friends never perturbed over.

For decades, US supplied fuel was piling up in India. They neither took it back, nor allowed reprocessing. So we need deal. During 1960s, India dpended on US for

feeding its people suffering from flood and drought. India defied the UN Resolution passed by the 110 nations backed by US and China and went ahead to liberate

Bangladesh. India rose from poor developing country to the fourth largest economy of the world. But always follow independent policy to the best interest of India.

With these words, I am concluding the speech.

* SHRI NAVEEN JINDAL (KURUKSHETRA): I rise to extend my wholehearted support to the confidence motion moved by the Hon’ble Prime Minster, Dr. Manmohan

Singh.

This motion has been necessitated because the Left Parties have suddenly decided to withdraw their support to the UPA Government on the issue of the Civil Nuclear

Cooperation Agreement with the USA. They supported the Government for more than four years which I appreciate. They had differences over several issues like price

rise, pension reforms, petroleum prices etc. but did not withdraw their support. In spite of all the differences, they did not want to dislodge the Government because

they did not want the communal forces to rule the roost. On several issues, we accommodated them. On some they should have gone with us. After all, the coalition

dharma is based on the principle of give some, take some more so when the national interest is at stake.

As regards the Civil Nuclear Deal, the Left Parties have been given the maximum opportunities to discuss all its aspects threadbare. I compliment Hon’ble Minister of

External Affairs Shri Pranab Mukherjee for the patience and perseverance with which he carried on prolonged discussions with the Left Parties. Some more meetings

were slated for further discussions but the Left Parties did not wait for those meetings and withdrew their support on the plea as to why the Government has approached

the IAEA to circulate the draft safeguards agreement.

I would like to emphasize that mere submission of the draft agreement to the IAEA does not breach any assurance or understanding between the Govt, and Left Parties

or anybody else. The IAEA will take several weeks to discuss the draft and come to a final decision. Much before that the Govt, would have sought the confidence of

the House. The Prime Minister has taken the earliest opportunity to do that. This would have happened even if our friends from the Left Parties had not

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withdrawn their support. The Govt, has always been saying that the agreement will be operationalised only after seeking the confidence of the House. I wish the Left

Parties had waited for a few more days instead of precipitating such a showdown and playing into the hands of those communal forces whom they have always

considered to be the worst enemy of the country and have been criticizing them for more than five decades. It pains me that they now want to join hands with those

forces who have tried to destroy the secular credentials of India.

As regards the BJP, it is now clear that they were waiting for such a situation to arise. In order to capitalize on this situation, they have overtaken the Left Parties in their

enthusiasm to try to topple the Govt. They have tried it twice in the last four years but could not succeed. Now they see their chance, thanks to the unexpected support

of the Left Parties.

I want to remind the Left Parties that even in their own ranks there are many who do not approve of this unlikely warming up between the BJP and the Left Parties. The

Left Parties should also know that BJP’s support to their cause of bringing down the Govt, of the day is not so much due to BJP’s opposition to the safeguards

agreement or Civil Nuclear Cooperation Agreement as due to their eagerness to grab power. BJP has said more than once that when they come to power, they will

renegotiate this deal with USA. It makes it clear that they support the agreement in principle. The House will recall that it was BJP which started the process of

negotiating a nuclear deal with USA. Hon’ble Jaswant Singh, the then External Affairs Minister discussed it with Mr, Talbot, the then US Under Secretary of State.

Unfortunately, the discussion made no headway due to lack of tenacity and clarity of vision. The BJP rues that failure which rankles in their mind till today. That is why

they want the nuclear deal with US but want to put their own stamp on it instead of letting the UPA Govt, get the credit for such a historic agreement. I hope our friends in

the Left Parties see through this game and continue to support the govt, instead of withdrawing it at the fag end of the tenure of the Govt.

Sir, why I call the agreement historic. First of all, I would like to quote what Shri Brajesh Mishra said on a TV channel this month. Shri Mishra does not belong to UPA.

He was the National Security Advisor and Principal Secretary to respected Vajpayee Ji, the Prime Minister during NDA regime. As a dispassionate and knowledgeable

expert, he congratulated the UPA Govt, for trying to clinch a favourable safeguards agreement with IAEA – the flashpoint for Left parties to withdraw their support and the

BJP and allies to sponge on this heaven sent favour. Shri Mishra said that the draft safeguards agreement was very satisfactory, in fact the best possible deal for India.

“It is as good as we could have got,” he stated. He also cautioned that no future Govt, should renegotiate the deal with US. “Renegotiation is between two parties, it is

not a one-way street. We might also have to give up something. It depends on the political circumstances then, ” added Shri Mishra.

Even our former President, Dr. APJ Abdul Kalam, a great nuclear scientist, had said in an interview that what Dr. Manmohan had done in the context of the civilian

nuclear agreement was unique. He said that national interest should be kept in mind; the country is bigger than politics. When asked whether the agreement was about

energy or about strategic interests, he said, ” I feel it is about energy. After all, our nuclear scientists have a vision. Every year, they want to add about 1000 MW and by

2020, they want to have 20,000 MW. They want to graduate India to having 20,000 MW by adding 1000 MW every year”.

This goal of 20,000 MW is as urgent as it is important in view of the critical power shortages in most of our States. The result is long and frequent load shedding and

power cuts adversely effecting our industrial and agricultural growth. The shortfall faced by several States is now reported to be 20 to 30%. To tide over this crisis, we

have to go in for nuclear power in a big way to help our farmers and entrepreneurs.

In addition to helping in overcoming the impact of climate change, nuclear energy will boost our power capacity. The Left Parties and other critics say that it will take a

long time and will be very expensive. Instead of criticizing in this manner, we should learn from the experience of other countries and not be cowed down by the fear of

initial problems, if any.Look to France, for example. France has taken to nuclear energy in a big way and made great strides to develop this source of power in a few

years. They also faced similar criticism in the beginning but they decided to go ahead and today 70% of their power comes from nuclear sources. They have

achieved this growth in a very short span of time. In 1985 France started with approximately 7000 MW of nuclear power capability. In comparison, our total nuclear

power capacity at present is less than 3800 MW. During 1989 to 1999, just in 10 years, France was in a position to get 42,000 MW of nuclear based power.

I would also like to mention what China is intending to do in the filed of nuclear energy because that would be of greater interest to the Left Parties. China intends to

generate 22,300 MW of nuclear energy between 2010 and 2015 and add another about 20,000 MW till 2018. If the Left Parties have no objection to what their comrades

in China are trying to accomplish, I fail to understand why they should object to what we are trying to achieve by augmenting our nuclear based power through the

agreement with US.

Sir, in conclusion, I have no doubt in my mind that the House will support the confidence motion in the interest of political stability in the country which is essential for the

continued economic growth of the nation and the credibility of our country in the international arena. Some political parties are out to create chaos and turmoil in the

country in their unseemly hurry to come to power just a few months before the next general elections are due. I urge upon the House to foil, their nefarious designs and

support the motion moved by the Prime Minister.

* PROF. M. RAMADASS (PONDICHERRY): On belalf of Paatali Makkal Katchi its founder President, Dr. Aiyya and six members of Lok Sabha I rise to support the

Motion of Confidence moved by the Honourable Prime Minister Dr. Manmohan Singhji. We express our fullest and overwhelming Confidence in the council of Ministers

headed by the Prime Minister.

Paatali Makkal Katchi has been an integral part of UPA ever since its formation in may 2004 and our Dr. Aiyya, along with other leaders was one among the

architects of the alliance. When we joined this alliance we affirmed that PMK will sail or sink with the UPA. Even today our position remains unchanged. We believe in

the leadership of Congress Party headed by Madam Sonia Gandhi because only Congress Party can provide an able and stable Government and take the country to

new heights.

At the outset we appreciate the honourable Prime Minister for seeking a vote of confidence although he has a technical majority even after the withdrawal of the

support of the Left to the UPA Government. This exemplifies his integrity, honesty and faith in Parliamentary democracy.

Sir, during the debate on this motion, political parties should express their confidence or lack of it based on two objective criteria.

(1) Policies, Programmes and performance of the UPA Govt in the last four year and two months.

(2) Merits and Demerits of the Indo-US Agreement.

Pattali Makkal Katchi is satisfied with the above two facts and hence support the Govt.

I take this opportunity to congratulate Madam Soniaji for providing sagacious leadership to the UPA Government. She is a symbol of

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Supreme sacrifice as she refused to assume the Prime Ministership of the country after the General Election in 2004, although the leaders of Political Parties and

leaders of the country requested her to take up the mantle. Her concern for the downtrodden has led to social orientation to the policies of the UPA Govt which

passed 27% reservation to OBC students in the higher educational institution and Tabled women Reservation Bill, in the Rajya Sabha.

We are equally delighted with the phenomenal performance of our Prime Minister. It was his agility, abitlity and preservance that made the stupendous achievements

possible in the area of economy, society, polity and international relations. He is a transparent and accountable Prime Minister. As Prof. of Economics, and economic

policy maker. a public personality, Dr. Manmohan Singh in the last 4 years has proved as a productive professional and Prudent Prime Minister. In 1991 when he

became the Finance Minister he exhorted that there cannot be good politics without good economics and there can not be good economics without good politics.

Today, after 17 years he has vindicated his statement by his 4-year accomplishments which are the instances of good politics and good economics.

Emerging as a strong Prime Minister, Dr. Manmohan Singh has proved that a Leader’s civility and decency can be formidable assets to help society, discover its

creative impulses. The achievements of his Government viewed at the backdrop of various constraints pulls and pressures are really splendid.

Unfortunately, the Hon’ble leader of Opposition for whom I have high regards has failed to appreciate the good work done by Dr. Manmohan Singh’s Government.

In fact, his presentation yesterday was full of untruths and half-truths characterized by internal inconsistencies and contradictions. He wanted us to believe that the

Prime Minister who died in 1964 came from his graveyard in 1974 and signed an agreement. While assessing the 4 years performance of the UPA Government, he

said, it is a paralytic Government and a patient in the ICU. This is again a grossly erroneous statement. If anyone has to assess the performance unbiasedly one

should study two minimum documents.

One is the Common Minimum Programme, the Magna Carta of the UPA Government and the Report to the People 2004-2008. I know that Mr. Advani

has neither cared to look into or read these two documents and evaluated the performance of the UPA Government.

Sir, I have gone through these two documents line by line and page by

page and as an objective evaluator I can rate this performance and can give 80

percent marks. To give you one summary statistics: out of 153 programmes promised in the Common minimum programme, the Government has implemented 127

programmes (83 percent)

It means that this Government has fulfilled 83 percent of its pledges made to the people of India. Is this Government a paralytic

Government? Is this Government a patient in ICU? I think there is something

wrong with Mr. Advani’s sense of objectivity.

You look at the economy today, it is robust, resilient sound and positive. At the time when BJP left the reins of power the Indian economy was a nose diving economy

in all parameters, But during the last 4 years, the UPA Government has infused necessary confidence, to the economic agents evolved appropriate policies and

programmes and transformed .a darkening economy into a shining economy. Indian economy has been in the last 4 years growing consistently at the rate of 9 per

cent – one of the best growth rates in the post

Independent India.
People should know only high growth could bring high

income to the people, high consumption, high savings and high investments and high growth. If the vicious circle of poverty has to be broken the surest antidote is

high growth. This is what our Economist Prime Minister has realized in the last 4 years.

A notable feature of the recent GDP growth has been the sharply rising trend in gross domestic investments and savings. The investment rate has increased from 25.2

percent of GDP in 2002-03 to about 35 percent of GDP in 2006-07. Gross domestic savings rose from 26.4 percent in 2002-03 to 34.8 percent in 2006-07. There has

been a sharp acceleration in the growth of per capita income which average 7.2 percent per annum during the last 4 years indicating that average per capita income

would now double in a decade and consequently reduce poverty. As a result of economic progress, poverty has dipped by 3.5 percent from 27.5 percent in

2004-2005 to 24.0 percent in 2005-06.

The Government has done well in the areas of wealth, Education, infrastructure, roads, railways, Airpots, Tax Revenue, Fiscal space, women and children,

Worker Section, Minorities and Backward classes. Therefore we want this Government Should continue.

The second criterion of assessment is the merits of Indo Us agreement. It is an agreement to set up power plants in India and thereby enhance the supply of

electricity which is indispensable for economic growth. Even BJP has broadly agreed to this agreement but erroneously argued that Hyde Act will be harmful, India

has become subservient, India will lose sovereignty and this is not mentioned in the Common Minimum Programme. A reading of the 123 Agreement Text would

clear all the misgivings. It is a deal for the benefit of this country and there is no need to topple this Government on this ground.

For all the reasons cited above, we support the Motion of Confidence and wish the government to complete its full term.

*SHRI SHRIPAD YESSO NAIK (PANAJI): I want to oppose the motion moved in the House by the Hon’ble Prime Minister. Sir, last four years and two months earlier

this. Congress Dominated UPA Government came in Power by outer support of Left Parties along with a Common Minimum Programme. Since then they were always

discussing the Nuclear Deal with US. I surprise, to note that in the end when only few months are remaining for General Elections, suddenly Left withdrew the support

from U.P.A- Government.

Sir, If P.M. and Congress Party, succeed to convince the Left about the Nuclear Agreement and Hyde Act. This motion of confidence should not have moved in the

House. Left says that they were kept in Dark and without their concern Congress gone to sign Nuclear Agreement. This is the policy of Congress to Use & Throw after

they succeed. Many times earlier also they, have pulled the Chain of Government for their self-interest.

Sir, for last four years and two months UPA and Congress betrayed to the people of this country. Government is totally failure in Price-control, Inflation, Farmers

Suicides, Law- Order & internal Security. The Present Index has gone high. 77% poor people of the country surviving only on Rs. 20/- per day incomes. To-day

inflation rate is 12%.

Sir, there is a serious Terrorist problems in different parts of the country. We have not received any proper findings of recent Bangalore & Jaipur Bomb Blast. ISI is

attacking on our Boarder and Army Camps. The case of terrorist attacked at Parliament is pending. Thus, this Government is totally failure.

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Sir, P.M. declare Rs. 60,000 Cr. Package for Waving of Farmers Loan. But, till date nothing had been done. Now, Banks are not sanction any loan to Farmers. To-day

the condition of farmers is worse than earlier.

Sir, Agriculture is the back-bone of our country but this

Government did not pay the attention towards Demands of the Farmers to give them Rs. 10 Support price for the wheat. In other hand they are Importing wheat @ Rs.

14 per Kg. Therefore, they have no right to stay on the Chair. Now, they must quit.

Regarding Nuclear Deal, Congress Government created a political crises in the country. This Issue is indulging the plain untruth. Govt, saying that Hyde Act under this

deal does not affect us. We are out of Hyde Act. This act is for other Nations. This is pure untruth. The Americans are saying from day one that the while purpose of this

deal is to bring India, within the Global Nuclear non-proliferation region. Their aim is to cap, reduce and ultimately eliminate India’s nuclear weapons programme. The

immediate aim is to trap India at the lower end of nuclear weapons technology by eliminating forever our option to hold further tests.

Sir, Our Leader Sh. L.K. Advani already mentioned about this fact that if we go for this deal we cannot make Pokhran III. Reacting to

this, Congress Minister replied in his speech that “We don”t want any more test like Pokharan III-IV”, as our nuclear power is already tested.

Speaker Sir, I have to mention here that Pokharan one, two, three are not enough, we have to go for more tests, we do not want our technology to remain frozen. For

your kind information the US has conducted 1030 Tests, Russia 715 Tests and China 45 Tests. Therefore, it is very much necessary to go for more Tests. As far as, this

Indo-US Nuclear deal is concerned, our foreign policy also will be affected- by the provision of Hyde Act.

Speaker Sir, I have some questions to be answered by Hon’ble PM:

(i) As per Hyde Act if US is arms twisting our foreign policy to disarm. Why cannot we, as the second largest energy market, as US to take similar steps to disarm

Pakistan as for Terrorists to acquire Nuclear weapons is more vulnerable than Iran.

(ii) What happens to Cultural lies with Iran, and days of non-

aligned nr movement? Has the Indian Government taken into confidence The large Indian Muslim population who sympathize with Iran ?

(ii) Section 103 b. 1 (1) Achieve at the earliest possible date, a Moratorium on the production of fissible material for nuclear explosive purpose by India, Pakistan and

China. I would like to know what are the Govt, of India’s opinions on this?

Speakar, Sir, We as a country have to consensus on three objectives before we get in to this agreement

1, Stratigic Alliiance – The clear objective that has to be discussed
with nation at large is, Is India a threat to US as much as what US Can be
treat to India? If US is considered as threat, by consensus, than we
must not choose to go ahead with deal for sharing information to such
depths. If consensus considers relationship as Ally, then information
sharing is good.

2. Energy Vision – India has a major energy crisis on cards due to the growing Industrialization, exponential demand and regular power: cuts in Rural India.. Hence a

clear energy gap. As of present, Nuclear Energy is one of the bast options to meet this demand or address crisis in the fastest and largest way. As large scale Energy

is created in fastest time. But what are the threats we are presently having in India. We have over hundreds of Terrorists Organizations already against India, from

Kashmir, Assam, Nagalands and Manipur, to Naxalites. With establishing of several nuclear reactors across India, do we invest more in their security to avert possible

long term damage to our fragile environment. Why have developed economies in Europe, moving away from Nuclear Energy to alternative energy such as Wind, Tidal

etc. Is there some negative experience they have about Nuclear Energy? Since its just one planet we will be using Nuclear Energy, and then dumping nuclear waste

on this same sensitive planet, or country. Isn’t this man-made technology creating more damage compared to existing methods of non polluted power generation? If

the present Nuclear Energy vision of present government backfires in future causing irreparable damage to society and environment, then will these two governments

be held responsible and subject to prosecution. How much percentage of energy demand will be met by Nuclear Energy? Does Nuclear Energy Vision contradict

global movements on Climate Change?

3. Competitive Scenario – Are the domestic Indian Nuclear companies ready for competition with US or will they be compelled to collaborate rather than compete.

What is the FDI Policy for this sector from commissioning of Nuclear Plants to importers / exporters of machinery, technology and raw materials?

Sir, The Congress Government wish to sign this nuclear deal, without doing anything to have consensus on this issue. They have not discuss the issue in Parliament

nor they have disclosed it with their partner. Also opposition parties Therefore, the question of supporting this trust motion does not arise. I oppose the Motion.
*LT. GEN. (RETD.) TEJ PAL SINGH RAWAT (GARHWAL): The UPA Government, four years in power is a sad story of poor performance on all fronts.

From foreign policy, to national security and economic management, the social welfare of the common man, the Sixth Pay Commission and finally the Nuclear Deal, the

Congress Party led Government has been a failure.

For four years, the foreign policy was dictated by the Communist Parties toeing, the Chinese line. The CPI (M) anti-US stand has left the nuclear deal in Doldrums. The

Tibetan’s uprising, the passage of Olympic Torch through India and the loss of Nepal into the Chinese fold are sad examples of a weak and submissive foreign policy.

On the security front, the approach took a communal path. POTA was abolished Afzal Guru despite being sentenced to death has been in jail for four years. Terrorism

has not been contained nor any terrorist convicted. The terrorists have become emboldened and a policy of appeasing the minority has been adopted to improve its

vote bank.

Spread of naxalism has become a serious threat to the nation. Internal security has taken a beating with a large number of bomb blasts spread throughout the country.

Assam, Kashmir and the hinterland are all threatened. Extremist threats in UP, Maharashtra, Andhra Pradesh and Metropolitan Cities have risen. The spate of terrorist

incidents in trains, Hyderabad, Mumbai, Delhi, Bangalore, Lucknow, Faizabad, Varanasi, Ludhiana and Ajmer have left hundreds dead and wounded.

Defence preparedness has seen a callous approach. Barely 1.9% of the Budget has been allotted to the defence. The three services are badly in need of Aircraft,

Guns, Aircraft Carrier, Eurocopters for its defence preparedness, which have been seriously delayed.

* Speech was laid on the Table.

The three services Chiefs request for a separate Pay Commission has not been accepted nor any representative from the services made a member of the Pay

Commission. The Pay Commission has taken good care of the bureaucracy with a hefty pay rise but neglected the forces who sacrifice their lives for the security of the

nation. The resentment has led to a large number of service officers and personnel seeking Voluntary retirement. Ex-Servicemen demand of one rank one pension has

still not been resolved, nor canteen facilities have been extended to Para military force pensioners.

On the economic front, rising inflation has hit the whole country and in particular the common man. Thousands of crores of rupees have been diverted to faulty

schemes. Farmers in the country are still committing suicide and banks are creating difficulties in extending loans.

Upliftment of the poor and downtrodden has not been given a serious thought. Caste and religion based schemes have been the criteria.

Overall this is a sad reflection on a Government that has failed in all fronts and need to pack up.

*SHRI SURAVARAM SUDHAKAR REDDY (NALGONDA): The Prime Minister has asked for the trust of the Parliament. It is not a vote on the nuclear deal, but it is a vote

on his four years and two months rule.

We oppose the deal because of its political strings. This will make us a “strategic partner” of the USA, as claimed by them. The USA was never a friend of India.

Do you remember the days when the notorious seventh fleet of the US Navy entered in the Bay of Bengal to threaten us when the Indian Army marched into

Bangladesh to help the liberation of Bangladesh? Do you remember supply of weapons, F-16 fighter jets, to Pakistan against India? USA is today isolated in the world.

Its policies are opposed even in their own country. Now, you want to take India into the US lap.

I am surprised that we are becoming the target of the UPA when, we, the Left, opposed your Government. Our patriotism is questioned by saying that we are for

China and not for India. What a shameful accusation? Our secular credentials are questioned because the BJP will also vote against the trust vote. What did Congress

do to bring down Shri V. P. Singh Government, Shri Devegowda Government and Shri I. K. Gujaral Government? Did you not vote along with BJP?

Nuclear energy is not coming cheap as propagated by you. Uranium price has gone up four times, and it will go up further in the future. As regards this deal

also, the first reactor will give us power only after eight years whereas thermal projects can be completed in next six months. We have enough potentiality of hydro,

thermal and wind power, but we do not concentrate on them. Our coal reserves are enough for the next 150 years. Why cannot we attempt for other alternatives? Why

do you insist for a deal which is against the interest of the Nation?

* Speech was laid on the Table.

You are accusing us of joining with the BJP. It is not true. It is a cynical allegation. The Prime Minister (PM) was targeted by the principal Opposition, namely, the

BJP. There were continuous attempts of personality assassination in order to tarnish the image of the PM. We, the Left, rejected it with the contempt it deserves.

We criticized you and confronted with your efforts on major policies that affected the people, the aam aadmi, and the Nation. We never asked you to intervene

and settle the disputes between corporate houses. Of course, you also rejected the suggestion rightly when some others made that proposal. Our confrontation and

our criticism were on issues related to the people.

Yesterday, you told the Press that the allegations of manipulation are baseless, and asked for proof of the same. I would like to ask this from you. Why has the

CBI case suddenly come up against UP Chief Minister Shrimati Mayawati? It is not terrorizing the political opponents. But will it not make the people to loose

confidence on the CBI and other such institutions?

Today’s incident in the House makes all of us hang our heads in shame. It was a very unfortunate incident, and it should be properly investigated. There will be

no smoke without fire. Dr. Singh is known for his integrity and honesty. But very unethical methods are being used to save his Government.

We oppose the Indo-US deal because it is attached with the Hyde Act. The explanation that it will not be binding on us is true, but it is binding on the US. Hence,

it will have its affect on our foreign policy. It is a betrayal of the Nehruvian foreign policy. The eloquent speech of Shri Chidambaram was not convincing. We oppose

imperialism. Hence, we will go to the people and explain it to them.

We oppose the Motion of Confidence. We will see in a few minutes whether you are going to win the Motion of Confidence in the House or not. But I would like

to tell you that you have already lost the confidence of the Nation.

You have asked for confidence vote on your four-year rule. We are dissatisfied on various counts as you have failed in the implementation of the CMP. Firstly,

you have failed to bring the Communal Violence Prevention Act, as was promised in it. Secondly, you have failed to enact the Women’s Reservation Bill. Thirdly, you

have failed to bring the Unorganised Labour Social Security Bill. There are 40 crore of them who are feeling betrayed by you. Fourthly, you have failed to curb the

price-rise and inflation, which is hurting crores of people of India. Fifthly, you have failed to solve the agrarian crisis. Further, the suicides of farmers are also continuing.

Hence, our Party has decided to oppose, and vote against the Confidence Motion moved by you. In fact, we are unhappy with the chain of events that have

taken place. We wanted the experiment of secular Government to succeed, but it is your betrayal of the Left and betrayal of the sankeerna dharma that has forced us to

take this step.

* SHRI BIKRAM KESHARI DEO (KALAHANDI): At the outset, I oppose the Confidence Motion moved by the Hon’ble Prime Minister Dr. Manmohan Singh, Speaker

Sir, they have failed to deliver the mandate which the people of India gave them, and since last 4 years and 2 months along with their opportunist Ally like the Left

Front who were a part of the UPA and how they failed the Nation, may it be agriculture, productivity, industrialization, controlling price, checking inflation, so that Am

Admi for who they had a mandate is now Starving. The farmer is committing suicide. Credit availability after loan waiver are not offering new loans, the loan waiver yet

to implemented in Kalahandi Orissa.

The States ruled by non-Congress Government are being deliberately neglected. The Hooda Committee Report on Mineral Policy is going to adversely affect,

the states of Orissa, Madhya Pradesh, Chhattisgarh and Bihar. The Mineral Policy is contrary to the growth of industrialisation and living in the above States. It should

be amended to guard the interest of the States as they are economically backward.

I know that Nuclear Energy will facilitate our energy consumption but results will start to trickle after 30 long years, when our neighbouring China will be 50 years

ahead of us in the Development field, may it be infrastructure, energy, GDP growth or reduce inflation.

In the South Asia Eastern region, India and China are two growing economies. So it further necessitates our country to improve and compete with China, which

is already in the threshold of becoming a Global Power and a Nuclear Power. Also we have the capability to achieve that with assured Nuclear Fuel supply. The

agreement of 123 is welcome because of the above aspect, but our party also agrees to it, but not sacrificing our Nuclear capability as a Nuclear different State. It

affects our “Sarvaboumatra” and Swabhiman.

* Speech was laid on the Table.

As we have already agreed, proved in Pokran I and II, and to further develop our Civil Nuclear Capability, what would happened if the America stop supply, as

they did in the past for our reactors at Trombay and other locations.

We agree that Nuclear energy is clean compared to Coal and Methane Gas and other forms of energy. But our Nuclear capability in strategic areas should not

been questioned, as India should not be colonized, due to energy support.

We should improve our Transmission and Distribution network and save as much energy as possible through reducing T.D. losses, which touches on an

average 35% to 55%. Energy saved is energy generated.

Hydel Power one of the clearest power has not been exploited to its fullest extent.

States like Arunachal Pradesh, with the potential capacity of 55000 M.W. has not been tapped.

Wind and Solar and power generation from Ocean has not been exploited to its fullest extent. So more Budget Support for the renewable energy program

should be provided.

The UPA has disappointed the Paddy Farmers of Orissa, promising them Rs. 1000/- a quintal M.S.P. This not been done. Instead it has been fixed at Rs. 850/-

a quintal. Paper reports were there that the State Government of Orissa never demanded. But type of announcement by the Ministry of Agriculture is contrary to the

Farmers report submitted by Dr. Swaminathan, for increase of MSP for Paddy.

Honestly the opportunistic policy of the CPI (M) who were China centric, the people of India should know that being a closet competitors has laid claim over

Arunachal and Sikkim and has encroached 10,000 sq

kms. of Indian territory, the Communist of India have never raised the issue inside or outside Parliament. They never raised their loud voices for the integration of India.

So I oppose the Confidence Motion moved by the Prime Minister.

* SHRIMATI MANEKA GANDHI (PILIBHIT): Sir, I have to express a personal sense of happiness that the tenure of the government, whether it falls or not, is coming to

an end. Never have I seen a government so totally inactive , so riddled with contradictions and whose ministers operate as separate nations in what they do for

themselves and their parties. And finally to have come to this pass on such a strange triviality as a deal that will never be signed and never be honoured and has no

meaning for India nor does it bring any benefits to anyone in it, is perhaps typical of all the other things that the government has found important in the last 4 years. This

government istypified by the fact that a railway minister could make a railway line from his village to his wife’s village , but he could not make a single small guage line

into a broad guage inspite of giving assurances every year. It is typified by promises and more promises to the aam admi but absolutely no action that has made their

lives any better. And to save yourselves now, you are willing to reward jailbirds and murderers. How will that help India?

The growth rate of 8% is a myth. It has to be judged along with the employment rate and the inflation rate which is very low.

Sir, this government’s failure on the agricultural front is a well-known tragedy. In the Common Minimum Programme (CMP) of the UPA government had proclaimed to the

nation in 2004, “The UPA government will ensure that public investment in agricultural research and extension, rural infrastructure and irrigation is stepped up in a

significant manner…” Sadly, the truth is far from it.

Has the government taken any steps to improve the agricultural productivity? No modern technological innovations have not been implemented to increase

productivity? Even the simplest promise

* Speech was laid on the Table.

like soil testing labs have not been carried out. We are a rice eating nation, and yet our per hectare paddy productivity is only 30% that of Egypt, and our wheat

productivity one-third that of the UK. That is to say with the same land, a farmer in Egypt produces three times more rice than an Indian farmer. India has once again

become a net importer of foodgrains, pulses and oilseeds. Infact, in an act of desperation, the government reduced the import duty on wheat from 50% to 5% and then

to 0%. It imported wheat and was caught because the wheat was so substandard that not even the poorest people could eat it. Was an investigation done to check who

in the government benefited from such duty-free imports of wheat?

The proposed “Enhancing Sustainability of Dryland Farming Systems” has proven to be a non-starter. The formation of the “National Rainfed Area Authority” has

remained lost in the files. The rate of implementation of the “Mini Mission II Jute” is too slow to make any significant difference. The recommendations of the “National

Commission on Farmers” remain on paper. No recommendations made by eminent scientists have been implemented and The “National Agricultural Innovation

Project” initiated in July 2006 remains lost in files.

Has any emphasis been put on any crop development in the last 4 years. Yes, on grape growing for wine in the minister’s constituency – which the government says is

important for Indians to adopt.

Has anything been done on the poverty alleviation front in the last 4 years. In the Human Development Index ranking, India is dismally behind even China and Sri

Lanka, what to speak of countries like Norway the other western European countries? We rank 124th in the world. 123 countries give better opportunities to their

peoples than India under the present government. Instead of trying to better the human development, improve the quality of education, the government instead

adopted an absurd strategy of bringing in quotas for students and faculty for the nation’s elite educational and even medical institutions. Has any effort been made to

improve the salaries and lot of teacers or to train them better. No. How could there be when the government has been busy segregating the student and faculty

community on caste over merit basis

Sir, perhaps no government in independent India’s history has been so detrimental to India’s national security that the incumbent one. Perhaps, no previous

government has been so weak as the present one.

This government has almost turned a blind eye to the routine Chinese incursions into Indian territory. There is scarcely anything being said to the rapid modernization of

the Chinese armed forces, or the building up of offensive infrastructure on India’s border with China.

Sir, it has been the failure of this government to fail to estimate the emergence of the Nepal Maoists, whose Indian counterpart wield a reign of terror in 231 of India’s

608 districts. The government does not possess the will to counter the spread of Maoist and Naxal terrorism in remote parts of central India. The Maoists seek the

overthrow of Indian parliamentary democracy through protracted guerilla warfare, and time and time again our poorly armed security forces fight a losing battle against

the well entrenched Maoists. The latest attack on the Andhra anti-Naxal Greyhound force proves the danger that these ultra-leftists pose for Indian democracy. Yet, this

government have overlooked the Maoist/Naxal threat.

The government’s appeasement policy in Kashmir has failed. It has resulted only in the rise of religious extremism.The recent shameful protests over allocation of land

to the Amarnath Shrine board exposed the communal face of Kashmir. Speaker sir, may I remind you that the government buckled in only 3 days of protests in

Srinagar, but allowed Jammu to burn. I aks you Mr. Speaker sir, if Hajj yatris are accommodated and there is a Hajj board, why can the Amarnath yatris not have the

same yardstick? Are there different rules for the different religions of India? The government claims that its commitment to secularism is what brought it together. Let us

examine the government’s version of secularism. On one hand the prime minister has stated that minorities have first right over the nation resources. Is this secularism?

When vested interest ensured that Srinagar burnt, the government lost no time in overturning what was a nominal demand of the Amaranth bhakts . But nobody in the

government shed a tear when Jammu burnt or the fact that the confidence of the people of Jammu lies shattered at their being treated as sec`ond class citizens in their

own state.

What was the first action of this secularist government. Cows that had been banned from going on trains to West Bengal to be slaughtered . The ban was removed on

the same day that Mr. Lalu Prasad became the minister and now they go in the national carrier to be killed in Bangladesh. Is this secularism ?

The government’s policy of appeasement towards Pakistan has also been a complete failure.

The serial bomb blasts in Jaipur’s Hanuman mandir, the Mumbai train bomb blasts, and the attack on the Indian consulate in Kabul all depict a dismal failure on the

government’s part. In fact, the highest rank Indian military officer was martyred under the regime of the present government. The Brigadier killed in Kabul was killed not

by the bomb but by the myopic and weak policies of the present government.

According to the MHA’s Status Paper, the current strategy of Pakistan-based terrorist groups continue to maintain a flow of finances to sustain the terrorist networks in

India, successfully target vital installations and economic infrastructure in India, readily are able to recruit and train local modules and launch at will attacks on soft targets

like market places, public transport system, places of worship and congregation, etc. They have also been successful in provoking communal tensions to create a

wedge between communities, and are beginning to supply hardware through land and sea routes.

There has been no priority to given to intelligence gathering. The fact that during its tenure the Joint Intelligence Committee (JIC) did not meet even a single time

displays the incompetence of those in power.

This government is not just incompetent it is willfully misleading. It has been incompetent to improve agricultural productivity, it has been incompetent to improving the

quality of lives of ordinary Indians, on the contrary, it has made life even more difficult by imposing ad-hoc cesses and taxes, it has proved utterly incompetent in

reigning in the runaway inflation and the killing price rise.

Sir, the entire salaried class, the middle class and the farmers are up in arms against such an incompetent government under a weak leadership. On a visit to my

constituency, a month ago, I met a man from a village who told me that because of the current backbreaking price rise , he could either feed his family or pay the

medical bills of his mother who had cancer. When I asked him whether his load had been lightened by the loan waiver, he said that only 3 people in his village had

taken loans from banks. He had loans , but they were from the local moneylender who was not going to excuse his debt. The loan waiver he said made most people in

his village feel angrier and more isolated almost as if they had been punished for being too poor to be part of the banking process.

The worst failures of the government have been on the environmental front. Our forests have been given freely without any check to international consortiums who have

raped this country’s forests and made our forest dwellers homeless without giving any benefits to India. Mrs Gandhi’s Coastal Zone Regulations have been thrown to

the winds and abandoned. The tiger has been decimated by China but this government lacks the courage to take it up. The Sethusamudran has dredged protected

waters and destroyed the lives of lakhs of fishermen and hundreds of species while making us vulnerable to tsunamis. This government has behaved like a foreign

army would in destroying a vassal state and looting its resources.

This belief that Nuclear Power is Clean Fuel is another totally nonsensical tale put out. Nuclear power is not as clean as industry claims. Advocates of nuclear power

frequently portray it as an important part of any solution aimed at fighting climate change and reducing greenhouse gas emissions. The Nuclear Energy Institute reports

that nuclear power is a “carbon-free electricity source”. The World Nuclear Association says “nuclear energy today represents nothing less than an indispensable

asset” if our world is to fight climate change.

Researchers have estimated that wind turbines have one-third the carbon-equivalent emissions of nuclear power over their lifecycle and hydroelectric a fourth. The

Oxford Research Group says if the percentage of world nuclear capacity remains what it is today, by 2050 nuclear power will generate as much carbon dioxide per

kilowatt-hour (kWh) as comparable gas-fired power stations.

A new study in the August 2008 issue of the journal Energy Policy has screened 103 lifecycle studies of greenhouse gas-equivalent emissions for nuclear power

plants. Researchers calculated that while the range of emissions for nuclear energy over a plant’s lifetime reported from qualified studies examined is significant, the

mean value is about 66 g of C02 equivalent per kWh (gC02e/kWh).

The front-end component of the nuclear fuel cycle (uranium mining, milling, and enrichment) is responsible for 38 per cent of equivalent emissions. Decommissioning

and plant operation, including the use of fossil-fuelled generators to backup nuclear plants when they offline for servicing, account for 35 per cent. The back-end of the

fuel cycle, which includes storing spent fuel and fuel conditioning, account for 15 per cent, and plant construction is responsible for 12 per cent.

This average of 66 g of C02 for every kWh-is staggeringly

high compared to what the nuclear industry has reported. It also shows, conclusively, that nuclear energy is in no way “carbon-free” or “emissions-free”, and that

nuclear power is worse than the equivalent carbon emissions over the lifecycle of renewable generators.

To provide just a rough estimate of how much equivalent C02 nuclear plants emit over the course of their lifecycle, a 1,000 MW reactor operating at a 90 per cent

capacity factor will emit the equivalent of 1,427 tonnes of C02 a day, or 522,323 metric tonnes of C02 every year.

Nuclear facilities were responsible for emitting the equivalent of some 183 million metric tonnes of C02 in 2005. If carbon taxes came to India . Assuming a carbon tax of

$24 per tonne not too extreme when existing carbon taxes in the UK and Denmark are between $16 and $31 per tonne a 1,000-MW nuclear plant would have to pay

almost $12.6 million per year for its carbon-equivalent emissions. For the global nuclear power industry, this equates to approximately $4.4 billion in carbon taxes per

year.

Researchers in the UK conducted lifecycle analyses for 15 separate distributed generation and renewable energy technologies found that all emitted much less carbon

dioxide than the mean reported for nuclear plants

First, due to the greenhouse-gas intensity of its lifecycle, nuclear power plants will not benefit directly from a global carbon tax or a carbon cap-and-trade system. While

the nuclear industry would certainly be penalised less than fossil-fuelled generators, the carbon equivalent emissions from uranium mining operations, enrichment

facilities, plant construction, decommissioning, and spent fuel storage are significant. Any type of cost for carbon emissions would absolutely increase the price of

these elements of the nuclear fuel cycle, and would thus make nuclear power more expensive.

Offshore wind power has less than one-seventh the carbon equivalent emissions of nuclear plants; large-scale hydropower, onshore wind, and biogas, about one-sixth

the emissions; small-scale hydro and solar thermal one-fifth. This makes these renewable energy technologies seven, six, and five times more effective on a per kWh

basis at fighting climate change.

Put simply, nuclear power is much worse at emitting greenhouse gases than pursuing wind, solar, and other small-scale power generators.

The adamant stand of this government on going through with a nuclear deal perhaps would have even been justified -even though India’s pride would be again be at

stake – if it was going to bring electricity as you claim. But that is another mythology. According to the Integrated Energy Policy Report of the expert Committee of the

Planning Commission released in 2006 , even if a 20 fold increase takes place in India’s nuclear capacity by 2031-32 , it will supply about 4-6 percent of the energy mix

, probably less. And how much would this cost us ?

Coal based thermal power plants cost Rs 4.5 crore per megawatt Combined cycle gas turbine running on gas or naphtha cost Rs 3 crore per megawatt Nuclear energy

costs between 7 crores per megawatt from indigenous resources and 10 crores from imported resources.

So , if we were to go nuclear by 2020 , we need more than 2 lakh crores of rupees at today’s rate. But since uranium goes up by the year, it will probably be double

that.

In any case , in a few years nuclear energy will not be in the energy mix of most nations because of its inherent instability and the world’s inability to deal with its waste.

So what is this deal about ?

This government should never have come in. The present Government should go and a nationalistic government should come in.

* Speech was laid on the Table.

* SHRI S.K. KHARVENTHAN (PALANI): At the outset, I would like to thank the Chair for giving me an opportunity to speak on the Discussion on Confidence Motion

moved by Hon’ble Prime Minister, Dr. Manmohan Singh. Also I thank my leader, Madam Soniaji and Shri G.K. Vasan for giving me an opportunity to serve as a

member in this august House.

Hon’ble Prime Minister of India has moved this Motion to prove the majority enjoyed by our Government in the House in the wake of the support withdrawn by Left

Parties on 9m July 2008 which was extended till then.

After 2004 General Election, the Left Parties has supported our Government, hurried by Dr. Manmohan Singh and we are very thankful for them. It is unfortunate that

Left Parties without any valid reason have withdrawn the support in a harried manner under the guise of opposing the agreement between India and USA under Section

123 of US Atomic Energy Act 1954 to develop our Nuclear Technology. The main objective of the 123 Agreement with the

United States is to end India’s International isolation and enable its full participation in International Civil Nuclear Cooperation.

Our country has launched its Nuclear Energy Programme under the leadership of Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru in 1963 and Tarapur Atomic Power Station was operated

through imported reactors under 123 Agreement for the period of 30 years but it had been frozen since 1974, when India has conducted its Pokhran-I nuclear tests

under the leadership of Madam Indiraji. From 1974, the entire world refused to have nuclear cooperation with India. But India has continued to develop its nuclear

programme by using indigenous technology. Under the leadership of USA, Nuclear Supplier’s Group (NSG) was created to deny India any access to nuclear

technology, equipment and materials.

* Speech was laid on the Table.

For a developing country like ours, one of the most important constraints on our economic growth is availability of energy. For instance, at the time of Independence,

the total installed capacity for power generation was below 1500 MW. Today it is around 1,45,000 MW. As of now, the weightage of different sources in total installed

capacity of (1,45,000 MW) is as follows: 66% is Thermal Capacity: Out of which 55% based on coal, about 10% on gas and 1% on oil. Hydro is 26%, Nuclear Energy is

3.1% (3,360 MW) and renewable is 5% (6,000 MW). Generating Electricity by burning Coal is Thermal Power by tapping the natural flow of river is Hydro Electricity. By

burning natural gas and petroleum, we are getting power in gas stations. Burning coal and oil has a harmful effect on environment and contributes to pollution and global

warming. Hydro Power is clean but due to monsoon failure and lesser inflow of water into rivers throughout the country, it leads to decline in power generation. For

example, Tamil Nadu, Kerala and Karnataka are facing a lot of crisis in power supply for the past six months and the power crises in northern and eastern parts of the

country are regular phenomenon. Even though, Tamil Nadu is having a large number of wind mills, the average shortage is 1,000 MW. The availability of power is

around 8,300 to 8,800 MW whereas the demand is 9,200 to 9,300 MW.

The power crisis in Kerala is very bad due to failure of monsoon in the last two years and it has affected Hydro Power Generation tremendously. The demand of power

in Kerala is 16,600 million units and hydro stations are producing 7,414 million units. Kerala Government has installed Diesel Power Stations and Naptha Power Stations.

Diesel Power Stations produce only 254 MW and its cost per unit is Rs. 8.79. The Naptha Power Stations in Kerala State is producing only 507 MW and its unit cost is

Rs. 11.48. Even though Kerala is having sources to meet the energy demand but the cost is very high. Andhra Pradesh faces severe power shortage due to failure of

monsoon. Krishna, Godavari rivers and all reservoirs are virtually empty and affected Hydro Power Generation very badly. The position in West Bengal which is ruled

by Left Parties for more than two decades is very different. Most of the villages are not even connected with electricity and due to which those villages are left in the

dark. After assumption of UPA in Centre, nearly 807 villages were connected with electricity in East Midnapore District under Rajiv Gandhi Vidyutikaran Yojana, a

flagship programme in Bharat Nirman.

UPA Government headed by Dr. Manmohan Singh has been working hard to increase the supply of power in the country. Latest technologies enabled us to tap energy

from renewable natural sources like wind, bio-gas and solar energy.

Modern Science has helped us to discover a new source of clean and renewable energy. This was recognized by our First Prime Minister, Pandit Jawaharlal Nehruji.

Throughout the world, scientists agree that pollutions is greatly contributing to global warming and to climate change. This can affect agricultural production and

endanger all living beings in our planet. Therefore, we must take immediate steps to reduce pollution that causes global warming. The cost of fuel for a nuclear power

station is very much less than coal fired power production. Nuclear Energy will be a clean and an affordable source of energy.

For the present India’s energy needs are met from nuclear sources only 3%. India plans to produce 20,000 MW energy from the nuclear sector by 2020 thereby

increasing from the very low level of MW energy at present. Our requirement of Energy in 2030 will be 30,000 MW.

Many countries are actively developing nuclear power. For example, in the early 1970s, France decided to prioritize the use of Nuclear Energy and to open itself to

international cooperation to attain this end. Today, 42% of its primary energy consumption and 80% of its electricity generation are taking care of by nuclear energy at

competitive price. Nuclear science and technology have a high applicability in the field of medicine in irradiation and storage of food products. Nuclear energy will

enable us to meet the twin challenges of energy security and environmental stability.

After assumption of UPA Government at the Centre, our Hon’ble Prime Minister has initiated dialogue with US President, George Bush on 18 July 2005 towards

resumption of Civilian Nuclear Cooperation and issued Joint Statement by both Leaders.

During President George Bush’s visit to India in March 2006, a Separation Plan was agreed between by two countries. The same was tabled in Parliament on 7th March

2006. According Section 104 of ‘Henry J. Hyde United States – India Peaceful Atomic Energy Cooperation Act of 2006′. Under Section 104 under the head, ‘Waiver

Authority and Congressional Approval, this Separation Proposal is accepted.

Hence, the Agreement does not affect India’s Nuclear Weapons Programme in any way. Even though, we are having a right to create nuclear weapons as a

responsible Nuclear State, India would continue to observe its voluntary moratorium on testing and its policies of credible minimum deterrence and no first use. These

policies were accepted by the then NDA Government and Hon’ble Former Prime Minister, Shri Atal Behari Vajpayee mentioned before the Lok Sabha on 27th May

1998. Our Government is also following this policy. According to it, India has agreed to identify and place 14 out of 22 Thermal Power Reactors under IAEA safeguards

between 2006 – 2014 in a phased manner. The same was agreed and accepted by US Congress also.

An enabling legislation, called the Hyde Act was passed in US Congress in December 2006 to enable the US Government to cooperate with India. The Hyde Act is

only a US Law and it will not bind India in any way.

Our Hon’ble Prime Minister has made a Statement in Lok Sabha on 17th August 2006 that India will not place its nuclear facilities under safeguards till all restrictions on

India are lifted. Hon’ble External Affairs Minister tabled a Statement on 18th December 2006 about Indo – US Civilian Nuclear Deal. Hon’ble Prime Minister has also

made a Statement before Rajya Sabha on 13th August 2007. Indo-US Nuclear Deal has debated thoroughly in Lok Sabha on 23 August 2006. The negotiations with the

US on the 123 Agreement were discussed in both the Houses elaborately in three times. Our Government has pursued this deal in a transparent manner and there is

no question of hiding any facts.

The 123 Agreement will not affect (i) the autonomy of our strategic nuclear programme (ii) our indigenous three Stage Nuclear Programmes and (iii) our research and

development activities.

This 123 Agreement never force us to sign Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty (CTBT) or the Fissile Material Cut Off Treaty (FMCT). It will not affect India’s nuclear weapons

programme in anyway.

Out of 22 Thermal Power Reactors in our country. Only 14 are under IAEA safeguards and with the remaining 8 Power Reactors, we can develop Nuclear Weapons and

those will not be controlled by anybody including IAEA. The 123 Agreement does not affect India’s right to conduct nuclear tests in any manner through separated 8

power reactors.

The Indo-US Nuclear Deal constitutes and unprecedented global offer made to India by International Community. Our Agreement is welcomed by Russia, UK and other

countries. It is baseless to say that this Agreement is anti-Muslims. Our Left Party friends have failed to note that Republic of China signed the 1985 US – China Nuclear

Cooperation Agreement (NCA) on 23rd July 1985 and approved by US Congress on 13th December 1985. Till date, that China continuously approaches USA for

implementing this Agreement. Since February 1995, the Bill Clinton Administration also expressed interest in implementing to expand Nuclear Cooperation with China.

Washington and Beijing conducted intensive negotiations since late 1996 to allow for Presidential Certification and was discussed during US – China Summit in

Washington on 29th October 1997, President Clinton announced that he would certify that if China has met the requirements for implementation of the Agreement. The

important condition put forth by Bill Clinton was that China should stop the spread of weapons of mass destruction and other sophisticated weaponry to rogue States

particularly Iran. This was accepted by President of China, Hon’ble Jiang and confidential written assurance also submitted to Washington in October 1997 that China

would halt all nuclear cooperations with Iran. In this regard, Joint US – China Statement was also issued on 29th October 1997. In October 1997, the then US President,

Bill Clinton announced his intention to implement the Agreement and on 12th January 1998, he signed formal certifications and reports required by US Law to implement

the Agreement.

On 12th January 2004, the US Department of Energy and the China Atomic Energy Authority concluded a Statement of Intent consigning cooperation in the Fields of

Peaceful Use of Nuclear Energy and Nuclear Non-proliferation and Counter terrorism. Hence, China has entered into an Agreement with US with the condition that it will

not produce nuclear defence weapons but we have separated Civil Nuclear and Defence Nuclear through 123 Agreement with US. Our Left friends failed to note this

and failed to appreciate the efforts taken by our Hon’ble Prime Minister for successful implementation of Indo – US Nuclear Deal better than China. What China reached

within 25 years after its long efforts, our Government has achieved within 3 years better than China.

Sir, I am sorry to say that the Left Parties have joined hands with BJP and other like-minded parties in toppling the UPA Government when communal forces are playing

an active in the country in disturbing the law and order situation. Withdrawal of support to the UPA Government at this crucial juncture will strengthen the communal

forces and the people of this country will never forgive them. Hence, to keep the communal forces away from destructive role, the UPA Government should be allowed

to function for some more time.

With these words, I am supporting the Confidence Motion moved by Hon’ble Prime Minister and conclude my Speech.

* SHRI P. KARUNAKARAN (KASARGOD): Sir, I do stand to oppose the trust motion moved by our Hon’ble Prime Minister Dr. Manmohan Singhji.

The Government come in power 4 years back with the support of the Left Parties from outside. The policy declaration of UPA Government was announced in the Joint

Parliament Session by the Hon’ble President of India.

The policy decision was on the basis of Common Minimum Programme agreed by the UPA and the Left Parties. There was no mention about the Nuclear Deal in the

CMP.

In the CMP it is stated,” that the UPA Government will pursue an independent foreign policy keeping in mind the past traditions of our country. This policy will seek to

promote Multi-polarity in world relations and oppose all attempts at unilateralism.”

There was no mention of strategic ties with the US because it was evident that such a strategic relationship will go contrary to the main direction of foreign policy in the

CMP.

After your Government has come in power, in spite of the concrete decision taken by the CMP, you have proceeded to sign the 123 Agreement with US. It was not

discussed with the left parties and hasn’t discussed in the Parliament also. Your have signed the preliminary agreement in 2007 and with the strong opposition of the

Left and other parties in the House, you have compelled to discuss the Nuclear issue in both the Houses of the Parliament.

I remind you what was the outcome of the discussions. Majority of the MP.s of both the Houses made their views clear. They were opposing the deal. This was the

best occasion for the Government to give up the deal for the interest of the nation because Parliament is the Supreme authority. But you continued your effort to go with

the deal.

* Speech was laid on the Table.

We have extended our support during the last 4 years. Though we have differences many issues, we continued it for the smooth functioning of the Government. Our

support was to keep away the communal forces from the power. We are proud we could win that game.

Considering our strong views of the deal, we made a mechanism of UPA – Left Parties Coordination Committee. Again we discussed the issues in detail with you. We

have made our views known in writing. We have made our views clear and we have given suggestion with notes.

By this time Pranabji made it clear that we go to the IAEA and discuss and return, not signing any agreement. It is only after discussing with the Left Parties we will

proceed.

Our Foreign Minister has made it clear in the House that they haven’t taken the confidence of the Left parties, we have being given full support for the last 4 years. It

would pain any political party and political leader. Though the text is not shown to the Left parties on 7th July it is circulated to IAEA and also placed before the Board of

Governors.

Prime Minister and Government says, we would come to the House after discussing in the IAEA. What is the use of such an exercise?. It is surprised the left parties

and the Parliament are not allowed to see the text before it goes for the approval of the IAEA. This is really betrayal of the left parties and thereby the Parliament and

the nation too. We have experienced earlier also when a GATT was signed without discussing in the Parliament, it was proudly announced by the Congress and the

NDA that it would give relief to the Indian farmers. It was in 1970. in 2008, we know the pathetic plights of Indian farmers. According to the National Crime Report about

1,66,000 farmers committed suicide due the serious crisis prevailing in agricultural sector. This is the gift given by the GATT Agreement in the year 1970 without discuss

in the House.

Pranabji said that there is no need of such discussion in the House. There is no Constitutional provision. Whoever, may be in power, they make the agreement for the

nation for the people of India. Parliament is the true custodian of the Democratic rights of the people. If the Parliament is not taken in confidence then who can be taken

in confidence and who is responsible for that. It is the people’s House who have to discussed and decide. This has to be followed by the executive. But if the

executive takes a decision and imposes it in the Parliament there dies the democratic principles. We strongly oppose this type of functioning. That is why we support

the Government when we made the CMP. Now the Government has violated the mutual understanding. So this situation has been created by the UPA Government.

1 don’t want to go into the details of the 123 agreement. It is very clear this 123 Agreement can be implemented only with the directions and norms prescribed by the

Hyde Act which is passed by the American Parliament.

We have previous experiences with USA, we made agreement with USA. Tarapur Nuclear where we have first Pokhran Test and also the second one of the India

Region. They have violated the agreement and stopped supply of uranium. Was it not the fact that we have suffered much with regard to this?

In the Hyde Act, some of the clauses incorporated in the Act are really questioning the sovereignty of our foreign policy. There is no guarantee that they will continue

uranium supply. The USA can violate agreement at any time. We have no right to cancel the IAEA safeguards agreement and we should allow them for inspection

regularly. They can take back the reactors and other things and we have to pay the compensation. The most humiliating clause is that the clarification of foreign policy

by reporting all the details in American Parliament, every year. How the nation in some kind of integrity can compromise with this type of norms.

So the condition made in the Hyde Act cannot be accepted by any independent country. It is just to surrender before the American Imperialism.

We are not against the nuclear energy for development purposes. Nuclear energy is one of the sources that we can depend.

India’s energy security primarily lies in indigenous energy resources namely Coal, Hydro and many other sources. The energy supplies for the West Asia, like Iran,

Central Asia are all very important.

The security of the gas supply lines through the Iran Gas Pipeline is much more important than the importing Nuclear reactor and uranium for the next 20 to 50 years.

India’s energy securities does not lie in buying billions of dollars worth of reactors from the US Nuclear Industry. Now nobody is buying it from US.

Why the Government is delayed the Indo-lran Gas pipe line which would really assist energy requirement?

The crisis in power sector is the result of substantial reduction in the public investment and also encourage in the private sector. The figures show the successive

Government have not taken any interest and initiatives in investing more money in public sector. Till now Government is not serious about the production of indigenous

energy.

The Approach Paper for the 11 Five Year Plan, no cost benefit analysis of nuclear benefits have ever been made and it is economic have never been evaluated. So

what we need is to invest more in the power sector. The figure shows that there is a reduction of Rs. 1,88 crore in the atomic energy sector. It shows how the

Government deals with using of indigenous energy resources in the country.

Government says that due to this deal electricity can be given to each and every village. It is really impracticable. The validity of the deal is 40 years. The estimated

production of the electricity upto this period is 8%. Now we produced 1 lakh 1.44 MW electricity. Out of this only 3% is Nuclear energy. Even if the deal materialized, it

will take atleast 7 to 8 years for electricity production in the plant. With the international experience, if it is coal based plant, it will take only 3 to 4 years. A coal based

plant cannot be commissioned with half of the time than the nuclear plant. The gas based plant can be built even faster. So, the claim of the Government to give

electricity with short time is baseless.

It is also untrue to say that the nuclear energy is less expensive. The Scientists and experts say the cost per unit of coal is Rs 2.50 whereas the cost per unit of the

nuclear energy is Rs 5.50. How is it possible for the poor farmer and worker to afford this huge amount? We have experiences of ENRON in Maharashtra electricity

charges had risen Rs.5.50 to Rs.6.00 which has heavy loss to the Maharastra Electricity Board.

We have criticized and pointed out this issue in the very beginning.

Government again claim that we can add 40,000 MW of Nuclear Power by an imported reactor to ensure energy security. For this, the cost will be Rs.3.624 lakh crore. It

means the minimum cost of the nuclear power plant is 2,000 dollar perkilo watt. Experts say that instead of 40,000 MW, 1 lakh MW electricity can be generated through

a coal based thermal plant with the same investment. Again it translates the facts and now 3 coal based thermal plant can be constructed with the investment that we

used for one nuclear thermal plant. So, the investment that we can save by utilizing the coal based thermal plant can be used to wipe out illiteracy and provide free

education and health for all the ensure universal food security. So the Nuclear deal the nuclear is not much in India’s interest than in the interest of nuclear power

industry.

When we go to the utilization of the nuclear energy by Western countries, instead of nuclear energy they prefer nuclear renaissance. In US, Western Europe, Japan the

total nuclear plant built in all these countries is only three. In 1980s it was 20 in these countries. US itself commissioned its last nuclear plant in 1996. During the last 20

years, there was no demand at all. It means even the Western countries are not keen to use the nuclear plants.

The most important issue that our nation face are the price rise, farmers suicide, the set back of PDS etc. Government says that we have better growth rate but what

about the price rise that the common people face. We have been discussing these issues in every Session. But no concrete steps have been taken by the

Government. That is because of the food policy that we have follow.

The PDS system has collapsed and also there is inefficiency in the storage of food grains. We have pointed out a number of measures. But you have not listened. It is

true that lakhs of farmers have committed suicide. Though the Government declared relief measures to the farmers, many of the poor farmers still not getting this relief.

The Government says that the Left parties have compelled BJP or NDA to destabilize the Government. But it is not the BJP or the Left to move this trust Motion, it is by

you yourself. For the last 4 years we give support though we have differences of views on many of the issues. Can you say that you have utilized the support positively

and made political gain in the elections. It is only the left parties who have opposed the communal forces. That is why they are weak in West Bengal, Kerala and

Tripura. But your strong mass is eroded not because of CPI(M) but because of the policy that you are following.

Why the Government is in a hurry to have an agreement with USA. rejecting the support and betraying the Left party?. The election in America is going to be held in

November. All the popular referendum conducted in America proved that the unpopularity of Bush Administration then why you cant wait for the next election if it is so

much needed. Here, nuclear deal is not a one railway compartment, which can be detached from a long train. There are number of agreements and deals. The

strategic statement made by two countries have paved the way for the creation of CEO. In the Industrial as well as in the agricultural sector, the CEO take the decision.

Members of the CEO are the directors of the Multi National Companies in these two countries. Out of 30 suggestions that they made, 26 suggestions are against India’s

interest. They argue for more freedom of foreign capital in all the sectors either industry, agriculture and retail trade etc.

Our nation witnessed the joint military exercise where India, America, France, Japan had are participated. US also dictate the mode of arms and ammunition that India’s

Navy and Air Force use. The MNC’s in USA succeeded to get more orders from Indian armed forces for arms and ammunition.

The large number of deals that the Government made with the America will not assist for the self reliance or to continue the fight against the communal forces. Not

because we are against the nuclear energy, but because we can promote indigenous energy sources in our country which protect our self reliance in the energy

sectors.

Think about the pathetic condition of our people 72% of the people have not got better drinking water, 75% of people have no better shelter to live, 57% of the women

suffer from mal-nutrition. Percentage of people uneducated are more in minority sections. Sachar Committee shows that 90 districts of country, the living condition of

minority are below SC/ST. The maximum dropouts are among muslim women and 330 minority concentrated cities, the preliminary facilities are lacking. After the

independence, the victims of communal clashes are mostly from minority communities. This is really a picture of the experience of poor people in our country. So, the

major issue before the nation is not the energy problem but the problem of the poor people.

Instead of traveling with a speedy train to Washington, to get nuclear energy, what we need is to promote interaction. So we can’t allow the Indian market to be opened

to the uni-polar world. We prefer a multi-polar world, where we can exchange our views and interactions with others. The deal really prevent the emergence of the

multi-polar world where India has a dominant role.

In the history of Indian Parliament it is shameful to witness that money power and muscle power have used to win in the Confidence Motion. It is reported that Rs. 1

crore was given in advance to two BJP MPs and they brought the money in the House. The status of the Parliament and the status of the MPs are degenerated. The

Speaker should take appropriate action either by constituting the committee of or refer it to the police investigation. The status of the House has to be maintained by

appropriate action.

I conclude with the precious words of Williams Shakespeare.

“To be or not to be is the question, to be served with cakes and not to be served with cakes”

Four years back, people of India have given a verdict to prefer to be and provide cakes but the Government turned not to be and to give cakes to the people through

the Bush Administration.

I am sure that this House would prefer provide cakes and reject the trust motion which has already become a trustless one.

* SHRI P.S. GADHAVI (KUTCH): I rise to oppose the motion moved hon. Prime Minister, Dr. Manmohan Singhji, that the House expresses its confidence in the Council

of Ministers.

Much has been written and said by the supporters and opponents of the Indo-US nuclear deal during the last three years. Each one of us, who has participated

in this debate, has endeavoured to reflect their understanding of the various aspects of this deal. It is distressing, however, to note that the Government has chosen to

create a political crisis in the country on this issue and is indulging in plain untruth to bolster its case. The Government claims that our nuclear weapons programme is

entirely safe under this deal.

The Americans have been saying from day one that the whole purpose of this deal is to bring India within the global nuclear non-proliferation regime. Their

avowed aim is to cap, reduce and ultimately eliminate India’s nuclear weapons programme. The immediate aim is to trap India at the lower end of nuclear weapons

technology by eliminating forever our option to hold further tests.

Secondly, I would like to submit that what the objects of Hyde Act are. Its objectives are to seek to halt the increase of nuclear weapons arsenals in South Asia

and to promote their reduction and eventual elimination; and to encourage India not increase its production of missile material at unsafeguarded nuclear facilities

(section 109).

Over and above this nuclear deal, this Government has no right to stay in power because this Government has lost majority in House; and it has failed in almost

all fronts in fulfilling the aspirations of common man, the aam admi. I would like to bring to the notice of this august House that in my constituency when Bhuj Airport was

reconstructed and inaugurated, the people of my constituency expressed their feeling that the name of Bhuj Airport, be given after

* Speech was laid on the Table.

the name of ‘Kranti Guru Pandit Shyamji Krishna Verma’ and it was assured to the people at the time of inauguration of this air port by the then Deputy Prime Minister,

hon. L.K. Advaniji, and the then Civil Aviation Minister of State, Hon. Rajiv Pratap Rudy, that Government of India would certainly consider the feelings of people of

Kutch positively but before procedural formalities for giving name of Bhuj Airport, UPA Government came to power which has neglected the feelings of the people of

Kutch under the pretext that it is the General policy of UPA Government to retain the names of airports in the name of city in which such airports are located.

But I would like to submit that in this country almost 17 airports are after the names of leaders and very recently the UPA Government has decided to give the

name of Lucknow Airport after the name of Chaudhari Charan Singhji, the former Prime Minister of India. How this name has been decided to be given is very well

known to public. This Government has failed in controlling the rising inflation, failed on the front of maintaning the security, etc.

I, therefore, oppose the motion moved by the hon. Prime Minister.

* SHRI B.VINOD KUMAR (Hanamkonda): The UPA Government headed by the Congress Party is seeking a Vote of Trust, after indulging in Breach of Trust. It is ironical

that the betrayers of trust themselves are today’s seekers of trust.

The Nuclear Deal, no doubt, is at the back of our minds, but that is not the only issue confronting the nation now. Escalation of inflation at an unprecedented scale has

made the life of common man miserable. His daily struggle is for getting at least one square meal a day; and he is hardly in a position to comprehend the intricacies of

a Nuclear Deal. Agrarian Sector is on the verge of a crisis, in spite of a good monsoon spanning the last four years. We boast of a very impressive rate of growth of our

economy, but our eyes are completely closed to the distress caused by the absence of distributive justice, and the alarming increase in disparities between the rich

and the poor. The law and order scenario does not give us any comfort, nor can we rest assured about security concerns of the nation. These are only a few facets of a

situation which is dismal, to say the least.

Coming to the Common Minimum Programme, which the UPA Government is expected to abide by, is followed- or flouted-at the whims and fancies of the ruling

dispensation. Some of the issues that form an integral part of the Common Minimum Programme are arbitrarily shelved – for instance, the formation of Telangana State.

And some of the issues of a very far reaching nature, that do not find even an indirect reference in the Common Minimum Programme, are unilaterally foisted on the

nation. The best – or the worst – example is the Nuclear Deal itself.

The Congress Party which is heading a coalition Government has arrogated to itself all the powers which even a single party Government with a clear majority in

Parliament hesitates to exercise. It is a clear case of unethical violation of coalition ethics.

* Speech was laid on the Table.

Coming to the question of Telangana State, the UPA Government has badly let down the people of the region. Let me very briefly submit to this august house some

vital facts of the case to substantiate my charge against the government.

In the Common Minimum Programme of the UPA it was categorically stated that the formation of Telangana State would be taken up after arriving at a consensus through

consultations. This assurance was incorporated in the Hon’ble President’s Address to the first Joint Session of Parliament, after the last elections. It was further

reiterated by the Hon’ble Prime Minister in his first Press Conference. These assurances facilitated participation of my Party i.e. Telangana Rashtra Samiti, in the UPA

and the Union Government. A Committee was constituted under the Chairmanship of Shri Pranab Mukherjee to ascertain the views of all political parties having

representation in the Parliament. It is quite evident from the responses of political parties that the consensus in favour of formation of Telangana State is very wide and

overwhelming. But an impression is sought to be created that a consensus on this score is yet to be arrived at. It is a travesty of truth, to say the least. The truth is that

even if the CPI (M), besides TDP and a couple of other parties do not support the proposal, the total number of Members of Lok Sabha supporting the formation of

Telangana State, if the Congress Party also supports, would come to a staggering figure of more than 425. If this is not consensus what else could it be? And what

more are we searching for?

Even after getting such a clear and categorical endorsement of almost all the segments of political spectrum of our country, the Congress Party continues to bluff,

maintaining that the consensus has not yet been arrived at. To prove our charge against the Government, we submitted documentary evidence to the Hon’ble Speaker

in this regard with a request to allow discussion in this august House. The ruling dispensation avoided an open discussion in the House, for obvious reasons.

On the contrary, it has tried to side track the issue by
raising the bogie of Second SRC, quiet contrary to what was
agreed to in the Common Minimum Programme. When this
misadventure misfired, it is talking about development of
Telangana, which never took place in the past nor is likely to
happen in the future. Vexed with these intriguing experiences
with the UPA, we had no option but to leave the UPA as well as
the Union and the State Governments. We are thereby once
again amidst the people to expose the questionable credentials
of the Congress Party and the resultant loss of trust of the
people in that Party.

* SHRI FRANCIS FANTHOME (NOMINATED): Sir, I thank you for allowing me to speak on the Motion of Confidence in the Council of Ministers moved by our most

revered and admired Prime Minister, Dr. Manmohan Singh.

Sir, this Motion has been necessitated by the withdrawal of support to the UPA Government by the Left Parties due to their displeasure in not being shown the

draft of the Indo-US Civil Nuclear Agreement prior to it being presented to the IAEA. Having supported the present Government for four years and two months and

having participated in governance without position and responsibility, and continuously dictated the direction of policy, it is extremely disappointing to find this position

emerging prior to the elections to the 15th Lok Sabha.

Sir, the UPA Government, with Left support, was put in place on the principles of mutuality and inter-dependence as enshrined in the Common Minimum

Programme (CMP) for governance. The UPA Government — even in the past four years — has, in accordance with the agreed programme, initiated several steps that

were in the process of transforming the Nation in an unprecedented manner : be it the National Rural Employment Guarantee Scheme; the National Health Mission; the

loan waiver to the farmers; the Sarva Shiksha Abhiyan; and the programmes to enhance the effectiveness of women in the social order. The Government has done

remarkably well. But a procedural issue related to the IAEA has been made an issue of such grave importance that the governance of the Nation has been relegated to

address the ego of the left parties Members of the joint mechanism set in place to exhibit transparency regarding the nuclear agreement proposed with the US.

Sir, it is my view that never in the history of this great Nation, with such esteem around the world, has the Nation witnessed such ridicule on a matter that

* Speech was laid on the Table.

promotes energy security and enhances the Nation’s effectiveness in all spheres of development. Consequent to the events consequently unfolding in this House, its

representatives have been denigrated and reduced to economic commodities with a price tag on integrity and loyalty available to be traded. Someone remarked that

“Nuclear energy is being driven by Horses”.

Sir, the Indo-US Civil Nuclear Energy Treaty has been negotiated by the UPA Government under the able guidance of the hon. Prime Minister by safeguarding

India’s strategic needs as well as enabling the Nation to generate energy for peaceful purposes. The agreement facilitates the inclusion of India in the community of

leading economically-powerful Nations, and to participate on platforms for trade in nuclear energy practices, which have been denied consequent to India not being a

signatory to the CTBT.

Sir, this treaty is to secure the future. Therefore, it addresses the aspiration and concerns of the youth of this great Nation, which constitutes more than 60 per

cent of the Nation today. It is the solemn duty of the Government to ensure that the future is better secured than the present. I, therefore, commend the hon. Prime

Minister and his Council of Ministers for the great work that they have done for this Nation.

I, therefore, support the Motion of Confidence.

*SHRIMATI SANGEETA KUMARI SINGH DEO (BOLANGIR): I thank you for the opportunity to express my views on the Confidence Motion.

I will not get into details of price rise crisis or the problem of internal security which has become so acute that terrorist attacks and bomb blasts have become a

common occurrence. There have been serial blasts in Mumbai, Malegaon, Jammu, Hyderabad, Jaipur, Samjhauta Express etc.

Naxalite menace has increased manifold. The recent occurrences in Orissa & Hyderabad bear testimony to that.

As far as the farmers loan waiver goes, it has been repeatedly mentioned by my Hon’ble colleagues what an eyewash it is benefiting only a fraction of the

farmers. Farmers crisis still exists & suicides are rampant all over the country. The Government has not fulfilled its promises or commitment to the people of this

country and failed miserably on all fronts.

Our party is not against Indo-US relations nor the Nuclear Deal. After all the credit of elevating India’s status in the eyes of the world and specially the US goes to

the Vajpayeeji’s administration.

The issue we are opposed to is the manner in which the deal is being negotiated and the veil of Secrecy surrounding it. After all in a Parliamentary democracy

the executive is responsible to Parliament. And a deal of such importance is on the verge of finalization and we are being kept ignorant regarding the details under the

garb of confidentiality. Even in the US the US Congress has discussed the issue threadbare. But in our country the Parliament is being treated in such a shabby and

redundant manner and no importance is attributed to it.

I would like to mention here that in a country like ours, wind solar and geothermal energy should be concentrated upon and encouraged. Even senators Barrack

Obama and John M.Cain have pledged to spend more money on developing these should either of them come to power.

I wish to oppose the Confidence Motion.

*SHRI VIJAYENDRA PAL SINGH (BHILWARA): Sir I stand to oppose the Motion moved by the Prime Minister. It in reality does not mention the Nuclear Deal with the

U.S. but in fact it is the Indo-US Nuclear Deal which triggered it and therefore is the reason for the support withdrawal by the Left, and thus I will concentrate on it in the

brief time. US-Nuclear Deal only. My Leader has very categorically clarified that we are not against Nuclear Energy, but against the Deal.

Sir, you will recall that in the NDA Government – Vajpayeeji negotiated 2×500 MW fast Breeder Reactor Atomic Plant being built which is in advance stage in

Kudukullum with USSR. Now if BJP is not against Nuclear Energy – why all this ruckus about the Indo-US Nuclear deal? That is the question being asked to us. Sir,

Pranab Da mentioned very lightly that we in all these years did not sign the NPT & CTBT – but what is 123. Is it not a back door entry of the NPT/CTBT and even more?

Let the Government explain this. Sir, may I also say that today in the world, U.S. which has done over 900 nuclear tests now does not need to do physical on the

ground tests but are done on computer – called Computer Stimulation Tests.

I need to draw the attention of the P.M. whether US has been approached and in the negotiations talked about giving this technology to India in this deal.

In the deal if we do a Nuclear Test the NSG countries would also stop supply of Nuclear Fuel. Has this point been clarified and if not then our strategic defence

would be affected.

Lastly, I am surprised at the timing and the venue of your meeting President Bush. The whole world knows you. Sir, P.M. had gone to Japan to attend the G8

& G5 meet.

Is it not true that Japan is averse to any Nuclear Programme due to what it suffered in Nagasaki and Hiroshima.

* Speech was laid on the Table.

Sir, do you not think it was wrong to go and discuss the Nuclear Deal in Japan? Was it not an act of sacrilege?

In the end I feel that the Nuclear deal must be re-negotiated looking at our strategic need and requirement.

*SHRI K. FRANCIS GEORGE (IDUKKI): Sir we have reached the fag end of this chain-reaction debate on the Confidence Motion moved by the Hon’ble Prime Minister.

Four years and two months back, when the UPA was formed, with the help of the Left Parties, we, the Kerala Congress Party of Kerala, also joined the alliance, as part

of the Left Front. The Government started functioning on the basis of the CMP and off and on we used to have UPA Coordination Committee meetings, where we,

Madam Mehbooba, Mr. Owaisi, Mr. Athawale etc. were also invited.

We used to have some kind of discussions on issues, but I should say it was just a formality.

I need not elaborate on what the Government has done or need not do on various fronts. This morning the Hon’ble Finance Minister spoke in detail about the

achievements of the Government, the rate of growth that was achieved, specially about the debt waiver and loan waiver that was implemented as per the Budget

declaration.

I am not saying that it has come to nothing, but a large number of farmers who were equally debt ridden, like the ones who had their loans outstanding as per the

norms specified by the Government but had chosen to be truthful and to meet their repayment obligations by whatever way that was possible has been left out. Now

they are asking us, Members of Parliament, is this the price we have to pay for being truthful? I wish and hope the Government will pay due attention to this issue.

Sir, this Special Session was called due to situation that arose in the country on account of the Indo-US Nuclear Deal.

* Speech was laid on the Table.

The left combine had raised certain issues – if I understand correctly nobody, no party, is against nuclear power to achieve the energy security of the country.

The Government, I feel, has not succeeded in giving satisfactory explanation to the concerns of the Left.

The Most contentious issue is that of the operational magnitude of the Hyde Act- an India specific, enabling legislation by the US Senate/Congress to exempt the

provisions of Sec 132 of the US A.E. Act 1954, to enter into a nuclear deal with India.

Certain provision of this Act

(1) that India should formulate a foreign policy that is congruent to that of the US etc.; (2) that the US President should report to the Congress annually whether India is

fully and actively participating in US and international efforts to contain countries like Iran etc. are unacceptable. Hon’ble Finance Minister this morning said that an

internal law of the US is not bounding on us and that even according to International Law a country cannot move the provisions of its internal law as justification for its

failure to perform a treaty.

This provisions was specifically made in the China-US 123 agreement, but has been omitted in the Indo-US 123. we fail to understand why? The next point is our right

to reprocessing of spent fuel, which is very vital and critical for our 3 stage nuclear development plan. Mr. R.B. Grover, Director, Strategic Planning Group,

Department of Atomic Energy, who if I understand correctly, was a key member of our negotiating team, is on record saying that the US game was “to hit” at India’s

Indigenous three stage nuclear power programme, because reprocessing formed the backbone of the three stages. It is as if the US intention is to block us from the

2nd and 3rd stages.

Do we have iron-clad assurances on reprocessing of spent fuel ? It appears not.

Then Sir, is the lack of an arbitration provision in the 123 agreement, whereas it is detailed in the Japan-US 123 agreement. We only have assurances to settle the

matter through discussions. Again, the provisions in the agreement for

a) Unrestricted right of return

b) Open ended right to suspend all supplies

c) Provision for all foreign-origin spent-fuel to be routed through a single facility – which will certainly be the state of the art facility proposed by US Under

Secretary for political affairs. Mr. Burns the state of the act status being decided by the US. Can we accept these conditions?

Finally Sir, there has been lot of talk here about coordination, Coalition ethics and Etiquettes. We the One/two member parties, who had been supporting the UPA

Government were not consulted or taken into confidence on any important issue like the one before us. Is it that we are not concerned about issues like this ? It is very

unfortunate, that is the least I want to say, as for the last 4 years we have been supporting this Government. Now everybody is running after every single member for

support. We, of the Kerala Congress Party, feel that the Congress Party which leads the UPA, should take the Left into confidence, it is still not very late, as the

emerging political situation demands that. In future also the Left and the UPA will have to come together, to protect the democratic, secular traditions of our country.

With these words, I oppose the Motion.

*SHRI SUKHBIR SINGH BADAL (FARIDKOT): I would like to thank you for giving me the opportunity to Speak on behalf of my party Shiromani Akali Dal.

Four and half years back Congress came to power with a slogan Congress Ka Hath Aam Admi Ke Sath. However same hand now strangulated the common men.

There are so many issues on which i can speak against the Government. However I will not waste precious time of Parliament. I will only discuss four important issues.

1. Price Rise:

The Prime Minister personally admitted yesterday that his government, failed in controlling the price Rise. Inflation has gone up to 12% which is the highest in last 10 to

15 years. During the NDA government, it was between 3 to 5% only. The common man has been completely crushed by the prices. Look at the difference between,

this Congress Govt, at Centre and our party government in Punjab. Your congress increased inflation and crushed the poor. We are saving them from these miseries

by providing them atta at Rs. 4 and Daal at Rs. 20 which is costing our govt. Rs 600 crores a year, Rs. 15000 are given as shagan on the marriage of poor girls. This

congress Government, has not even offered once to compensate us of the loss caused by these wrong policies.

2. Farmers:

This Centre Govt, has been anti Farmers, especially against the Punjab Farmers. Punjab farmers produce 65% of wheat requirement of the country. However they have

not been given the right prices. Govt, of India has imported wheat at Rs.1600 per quintal while paying Punjab farmers only Rs.1000 per quintal. In the case of Rice it is

worst. Punjab produce rice more then 55% of the country’s rice requirement. However farmers were given a slap on their face by this congress

* Speech was laid on the Table.

Govt, by announcing MSP of only Rs.850 which is even less than Rs.1000 recommended by the Agriculture Price Commission. The international prices are about Rs

2000 a quintal.

Congress Govt, did a big drama by announcing the waiver of agriculture loan worth Rs 72000_ crores of small farmers in India but Punjab farmers were again

discriminated. The Punjab farmers which produced 65% of Wheat and 55%, of Rice requirement of the country only got 1% of 72000 crores share of loan / waivers

which is insult to the Punjab farmers. We provide free education to farmers to save them.

I would like to say sir, Punjab farmers have done of National service by solving the food problem of the country. However as a
consequences, the quality of our soil has gone down and
Water level has also gone down and some experts feel
that if this treed continues then by 20-20 Punjab may
become a Desert.

We requested the Centre Govt.(l) for Rs. 6000 crores for Irrigation Revamp Project, but no response. We also requested(2) for Rs.1000 crore of Agriculture Research,

but no response.

Even the Wheat Enhancement Programme launched by the Congress Govt, initially ignored Punjab. Only when we Protested, then they introduce only 13 Dist. of

Punjab.

Nuclear Deal:

I have been watching various channels during the last few days. All channels are asking people what is the Neclear Deal. 95% do not know about it.

Let us come to Nuclear Deal, Hon’ble Prime Minister and
the UPA Govt, has wrongly projected this Nuclear Deal as
something which will solve the Power problem of the
country. Actually they are wrongly deceiving the people of
the Country. Even if we sign the Nuclear Deal as per Govt,
estimate Nuclear Energy will produce only 6% of country
energy requirement which is nothing.

As per Ministry of Power Website

Total Install Capacity of Power in India is :-

1,44,565 MW Potential

Thermal: 92,216 MW

Hydel: 36,033 MW 148000 MW

Nuclear: 4,120 MW

Govt, of India should concentrate Hydel Generator then Nuclear Power. This Nuclear Deal is actually the Congress Govt. Personal Agenda. The Congress is ready to

sacrifice national security, in push its personal agenda.

They have not taken their own allies into confidence. The Hon’blc Prime Minister should have called an all party meeting and explained the complete deal beside put

forward the complete facts. Not hide facts and deceive the people of the country by giving a wrong impression. However at the end I would like to say SAD party can

never support a Govt, of Congress party.

1. It is responsible of killing thousands of people during 84 riots and

2. The party which attacked the Golden Temple with Tanks.

3. The Party which is trying to break our SGPC.

4. The Govt, that did not help to solve the Turbon issue in France.

People of Punjab and the Country feel that this Congress Govt, has to be voted out as soon as possible. Every single day this Govt, survives they will bring miseries

to the people of the nation.

Therefore my party and 1 will vote against this Govt, and ensure that this Govt, does not back even again.

* Speech was laid on the Table.

SHRI M.P. VEERENDRA KUMAR (CALICUT): Today, as Parliamentarians, when we are going to take a historical decision, I want to say what my Party has to say on this

issue.

Yesterday, the hon. External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee said that we can never compromise on our sovereignty. Then, will the Government clarify these

doubts pertaining to the Hyde Act, which the Government says is not binding on us? What is the official reaction to this quote of the U.S. Secretary of State

Condoleezza Rice, who told the U.S. House Foreign Affairs panel in February, “That we will support nothing with India that is in contradiction to the Hyde Act? It will have

to be completely consistent with the obligations of the Hyde Acct. We will have to be consistent with the Hyde Act or I do not believe we can count on Congress to

make the next step.”

Will the Prime Minister clarify on this subserviently different formulation in Article 2 of our 123 Agreement with U.S: “Each party shall implement this agreement in

accordance with its respective applicable treaties, national laws, I repeat, national laws and regulations…concerning the use of nuclear energy for peaceful purposes.”

Who will clarify on the “prescriptive and extraneous” elements, which the Government itself concedes as of being there in the Act?

Though the 123 Agreement and Hyde Act are ‘supreme laws’ of the U.S., is it true that because the Agreement is ‘pursuant’ to the Act, it will constantly and

continuously guide and govern the implementation of the former?

Is it a fact that the 123 Agreement between China and U.S., is not bound by an overarching straitjacket like the Hyde Act?

MR. SPEAKER: Mr. Veerendra Kumar, you can lay your statement on the Table of the House.

SHRI M.P. VEERENDRA KUMAR : Please give me one minute, Sir.

Is it true that China-U.S Agreement specifically invokes, “The principle of international law…that a party may not invoke the provisions of its internal law as

justification for failure to perform a treaty?”

Sir, I am completing. Will this Government be transparent in the matter of the significance of the following clauses: full participation in the Proliferation Security

Initiative; formal commitment to the Statement of Interdiction Principles of such Initiative; public announcement of our decision to confirm export control laws to

Wassenaar Arrangement, which we have not signed?

Hyde Act commands the U.S. President not later than January 31 each year to submit to the Committee of the House a progress report on achieving each of the

many policy objectives in Section 3(b). One such reads: “Secure India’s full and active participation in United States efforts to dissuade, isolate and, if necessary,

sanction and contain Iran in its efforts to acquire weapons of mass destruction.”

MR. SPEAKER: Please conclude now.

SHRI M.P. VEERENDRA KUMAR : Sir, I am finishing it.

MR. SPEAKER: You have three more pages; please lay it on the Table of the House.

SHRI M.P. VEERENDRA KUMAR : Sir, please give me one more minute.

SHRI M.P. VEERENDRA KUMAR : In this context, will the Government clarify on the statement by Stephen Rademaker, the former U.S. Assistant secretary for

International Security and Non-Proliferation who, in a talk in February, 2007, here in Delhi public confessed to U.S. coercion of India to vote against Iran in IAEA, both in

2005 and 2006?

The obscene haste with which this Government is pursuing the 123 Agreement is amazing.

Sir, with your permission, I would like to lay the rest of the speech on the Table of the House.

MR. SPEAKER: Yes.

*SHRI M.P. VEERENDRA KUMAR : When people are reeling under double-digit inflation, spiralling prices of food items and fuel including domestic gas, the govt. is

hell-bent on a deal which is not part of the Common Minimum Programme. Neither did it feature in the election manifesto of the Congress. The clandestine manner in

which the govt. hid the text of the IAEA draft agreement from the Left and its allies, while circulating it to the board of governors is an unpardonable exercise in political

deceit. Without our support, including my party’s from the outside, this govt. would not have survived for the past four years to bring this motion now.

As for the breast-beating over our uniting with the BJP, the nation knows that we of are not acting in concert with them and that we subscribe to diametrically different

ideologies. It is only a congruence of independent political interests that has dictated such a step. And let the congress retrospect on which camp they were in, when

unseating V.P. Singh (1990), Deve Gowda & I K Gujral (both 1997)! For lack of time, I cannot go into the disadvantages of nuclear fuel, a discredited technology.

France, which depends on nuclear energy the most, is facing enormous problems with nuclear waste processing.

The external affairs minister remarked on Nehru in the context NPT, that a dead man cannot express his opinion. Since the govt. has become alien to Nehruvian ideals,

the onus is on us to become his voice, at least in the matter of

*.…..* This part of the speech was laid on the Table.

non-alignment. Here it is pertinent to remember the recent observation Nicholas Burns; the former US Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs that, had Nehru been

alive, such an agreement would have been inconceivable.

Sir, I conclude: we stand at the crossroads of making history on this confidence motion. If the government wins, and I feel it should not, the nation loses. So we vote

against the motion as we are opposed to the nuclear deal.*

Respected Speaker, Sir, I am thankful to you for giving me an opportunity to speak on this very momentous issue.

Please listen to me. I am respresenting the indigenous Bodo-Tribal people of the whole country. We have numerous problems and grievances. While we stand up to

speak about our problems you keep disturbing the House. None of you should create any kind of problem, if you have any concern for us.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Mani Charenamei. They are coming from the North-East. He is from a small State. Allow him to speak.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI MANI CHARENAMEI (OUTER MANIPUR): Thank you very much, Sir. I am a Naga from the North-East. I am very happy to get this opportunity to speak on this

Nuclear Deal. During the past four years, as an independent MP representing Outer Manipur I could not extend my support to the UPA Government because in the

Common Minimum Programme it was mentioned that the territorial boundary of the North-Eastern States will be maintained. This is against the Constitution of India.

Whereas the Common Minimum Programme speaks that Telengana State would be created but during those days, the UPA has used different yardstick for different

areas. That is why, I could not extend support. But today I have been assured that this Common Minimum Programme will be re-examined. I have been assured that

constitutional requirement would be taken up to fulfil the aspirations of my State. … (Interruptions) Though my State falls under undeveloped areas with full of problems,

I have taken a decision to share the problem of the nation and support the Nuclear Deal.

I would also request the hon. Prime Minister to initiate talks with NSCN-IM and Government of India in right earnest so that the desire and aspirations of the Naga

people is fulfilled. I thank you very much once again, Sir.

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Yerrannaidu – three minutes.

SHRI KINJARAPU YERRANNAIDU (SRIKAKULAM): No, Sir. The TDP has been allotted six minutes by the Business Advisory Committee. … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: I stand corrected. You can speak for six minutes.

SHRI KINJARAPU YERRANNAIDU : Sir, I stand to oppose the Motion moved by the hon. Prime Minister. I oppose the Motion not only on the Indo-US Nuclear Deal

but on other failures of the UPA Government. The Prime Minister’s Office became a counter for political deals. … (Interruptions) Everybody wants energy. But in the

name of energy security, the Government is mortgaging the national sovereignty, integrity to Bush administration. This deal not been the two countries – India and the

USA – but it is between Dr. Manmohan Singh and Mr. Bush, the President of the USA, who would be demitting office in four months. What is the hurry to go for the 123

Agreement. China took 10 years to finalise the Agreement. There are a lot of contradictions and implications in the Hyde Act. A lot of dangerous provisions are also

there. When there is ambiguity between the Hyde Act and the 123 Agreement, the Hyde Act would prevail.[r43]

19.00 hrs.

In the 123 Agreement, it is made clear that the national laws will apply, in case of any ambiguity. So, the Prime Minister’s Office is indulging in it; it is using all the

institutions of the Government to win this trust vote, to capture the MPs. They are using CBI; they are using Income Tax Department; and they are using other methods

to get more Members. This is unethical, immoral; and by … (Not recorded) they want to win this vote of confidence; this is unethical.

What happened in the morning? My friend, Shri Pathak was mentioning about the incident of CBI officers going to somebody’s residence. Is this not a shameful

thing? What is happening to the MPs of BJP? … (Not recorded)

MR. SPEAKER: Not to be recorded.

SHRI KINJARAPU YERRANNAIDU : Previously, after India’s Independence, so many Prime Ministers have moved vote of confidence; but never has it happened like

this. In the last 15 years, I had also participated in 3-4 motions of vote of confidence. They maintained dignity – either win or lose, and they had prestige. Now, they are

doing it by illegal, immoral, unethical and by … (Not recorded) what is the use in winning like this? … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: That is deleted.

SHRI KINJARAPU YERRANNAIDU : What is the use of winning this? People are watching. There is no unanimity among the people of this country; there is no unanimity

among the political parties; there is no majority in both the Houses of Parliament.

MR. SPEAKER: Why are you shouting? Your throat will become bad.

SHRI KINJARAPU YERRANNAIDU : There is no unanimity among the political parties. There is no majority in both the Houses of Parliament.

At the time of discussion on 123 Agreement, majority of political parties had walked out. On all these important national issues, unilateral action is being taken; it

should not be done like that and there should be consensus. … (Interruptions) This is not the issue of other political parties; this is the issue of our nation, Bharat. That

is why, there should be consensus.

UNPA demanded a national debate on this; and UNPA demanded a Parliamentary Committee, but the Government did not accept. Our hon. Prime Minister has

no confidence in the External Affairs Minister. On the 8th of July, our External Affairs Minister told the Print Media and the Electronic Media that only after taking the vote

of confidence, he would go to IAEA. What happened to the statement of the External Affairs Minister? The Prime Minister has no confidence in the External Affairs

Minister. How can the Prime Minister expect confidence in the Council of Ministers? This is meaningless. That is why, you have to postpone the Indo-American Nuclear

Deal. The Heavens will not fall.

The Prime Minister is holding the Coal Ministry. If they were interested in producing power, they could have done it in the last four years. What were they doing

for the last four years? In the Coal Ministry, many innovative measures could have been taken. There is shortage of coal; there is no coal to the power projects; the

thermal projects are not producing power due to shortage of coal. Even the Power Minister could not take any suitable and important decisions to get more coal. How

are they showing importance in this?

Other important points are also there; you are only allowing six minutes; I am laying the rest of it. In this, I am putting many questions to the hon. Prime Minister.

He should answer all these questions.

MR. SPEAKER: Okay, thank you. You can lay it.

SHRI KINJARAPU YERRANNAIDU : Mr. Speaker, Sir, with your permission, I would like to put a few questions to the hon. Prime Minister and I hope that he would

reply.

MR. SPEAKER: You have only half a minute.

SHRI KINJARAPU YERRANNAIDU : I will take only two minutes.

In the case of even petty commercial disputes, there is a provision for arbitration. But in respect of a highly politico-techno-legal agreement like 123 Agreement

why have we not insisted on such arbitration arrangement? Is it not that Japan has negotiated with USA for two years only on arbitration clause?

My second point is… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: That means the arbitrators will mint money.

SHRI KINJARAPU YERRANNAIDU : In the joint statement of our Prime Minister and Mr. Bush, our Prime Minister has agreed to a Missile Technology Control Regime.

And if so, does it not have implications for our strategic defence related nuclear programme?

MR. SPEAKER: You have made your point. I am calling the next speaker. I have given you more than the allotted time.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI KINJARAPU YERRANNAIDU : Sir, this Government has no time to control prices, to control inflation or to review the progress.… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Your written speech will be included.

* SHRI KINJARAPU YERRANNAIDU : Sir, Hon’ble PM has moved a motion to seek the confidence of this august house in his Council of Ministers. Actually, this has

happened in the context of the controversy over the Indo-US civil nuclear cooperation agreement on which the left party has justifiably withdrawn their support to this

Government.

By moving a general motion seeking confidence of this august house, PM has done us a favour. Had the confidence been sought only in respect of the nuclear deal

the position of some parties might have been different. But by moving a general motion of confidence, PM has given an opportunity to those supporting the deal also

to vote against the Government on other issues like the failure of this Government on all other fronts like price control, suffering of the farmers etc. I stand to oppose

this motion both in respect of the nuclear deal and for other failures of the UPA Government.

I would like to first elaborate on my party’s opposition to the nuclear deal. All through this controversy, I was of the opinion that there was no consensus between the

PM and the Congress Party and other members of the UPA. My doubt was confirmed by what Mr.Rahul Gandhi said recently. I heard him on TVs saying that his party

felt that if PM felt that the deal was in the interest of the country so it must be and we don’t mind if we loose the trust vote in Lok Sabha. This significant statement of

Rahul Gandhi confirmed that PM has taken this more as an issue of personal prestige than of larger national interests. Since the PM has nothing to show he is looking

for a place in history as one who has redrawn the independent foreign policy of our country to America in the name of energy security besides handing over the future

of our nuclear programme to a foreign country in the name of fuel supply.

Sir, I would like to ask one major question to our PM. Most of the times, PM has been the Coal Minister also. Coal is the major source of power generation

*……* This part of the speech was laid on the Table.

in our country. But what major initiatives have been taken to increase coal production? We have been regularly reading news reports that power generation was

affected due to lack of coal in adequate quantities. Coal blocks have been allocated to private parties and mostly to non-eligible companies who have not been able to

bring those blocks into production. No sincere efforts have been made to increase exploration of coal bearing areas. We have abundant reserves of coal but we don’t

have the ability to use it fully and effectively.

And on the other hand, PM has agreed to appoint a new coal minister who during two terms in the last 4 years has only made a mess in the Ministry just to secure 5

votes in support of the nuclear deal. So, it is clear that this Government wants our coal industry to fail so that we can import nuclear reactors from USA. In a statement

Chairman of the Nuclear Power Corporation said that Government will spend US $ 16 billions (more than 64,000 crores) in the near future. So, this nuclear deal is all

about making money in the name of nuclear power.

We are opposed to the nuclear deal as proposed by this Government because there is no transparency in the whole process. Most of the provisions of the

123 Agreement are ambiguous suiting American interests. There is no clarity regarding uninterrupted nuclear fuel supply, strategic fuel reserves, independence of our

strategic nuclear programme and foreign policy, provisions of Hyde Act and 123 Agreement etc. Sir, this government and Congress parties have been spreading lies

and half truths about the deal to mislead the people of our country. This Government has released an official publication on “Facts about India’s initiatives for seeking

international cooperation in civil nuclear energy”

In that publication (in answer to second question on page-17) it has been confirmed that 123 Agreement contained certain extraneous provisions and commitments on

Indian foreign policy. This is what the left parties and we have been saying. 123 agreement clearly compromises our independent foreign policy notwithstanding the

Foreign Minister’s statement in Parliament on December 12,2006 that our foreign policy is a sovereign right. What does it mean? Govt. Has already accepted certain

foreign policy commitments and mere statement of foreign minister can not restore its independence. This Government is clearly caught on the wrong foot. In any case

our PM does not have confidence in his External Affairs Minister. Quoting the PM, Shri Pranab Mukherji has announced on July 8th that the India specific safeguards

agreement will be sent to IAEA Board of Governors only after obtaining the vote of confidence. But the very next day the agreement was sent for circulation to the IAEA

Board. Sir, when PM has no confidence in his own Foreign Minister, how can this House has confidence in this PM and his council of Ministers. I am also given to

understand that he did not want a particular person to be made the Coal Minister but the same person is going to be appointed as coal minister the next day after

winning the trust vote

Hyde Act also requires our foreign policy to be in line with that of USA and we should even assist America in containing Iran from developing nuclear technology. We

have already once voted against Iran in this regard which has become controversial and the Government could not give convincing reply to this house. Hyde Act also

requires us to stop production of fissile material required for production of nuclear weapons for our defence and also to abide by the Missile Technology Control

Regime. Sir, the government publication i have referred to earlier said (page-18 at the top) that Bush has made it clear that he would consider certain provisions of the

Hyde Act as only advisory. Nothing can be more ridiculous than this. The term of President Bush is coming to an end in a few months. What is the value of the personal

opinion of such an authority? Is his successor bound by it? I am extremely sorry that this PM and the Congress Party are fooling our people. Sir, with your permission I

would like to ask a few questions to our PM. In case of even petty commercial disputes there is a provision for arbitration. But in respect of a highly

politico-techno-legal agreement like 123 agreement why we have not insisted on such arbitration arrangement? Is it not that Japan has negotiated with USA ; for 2 years

only on arbitration clause?

Is it not a fact that in the July 18,2005 Joint Statement of our PM and Bush, our PM has agreed to a Missile Technology Control Regime. And if so, does it not have

implications for our strategic defence related nuclear programme? 1s it not a fact that President Bush has committed that US would ensure full civil nuclear energy

cooperation but the 123 Agreement does not cover transfer of uranium enrichment technology and production of heavy water? 1s it not a plain and simple truth that

though an American Congress Law is not binding on India, the same will be binding on US and the US congress will seek conformity by India with such a law like the

Hyde Act whose provisions are contradictory to that of 123 Agreement? Why our negotiators have failed in ensuring clear and unambiguous provisions in the 123

Agreement? 1s it not true that our PM has kept too much of faith in President Bush who will be out of office in a few months from now? Why PM and this Government has

miserably failed in properly developing our coal industry to meet the growing demand besides hydel and other resources? Why PM is so keen to finalize such a

crucial deal without being able to convince parties who have supported this Government for more than 4 years? 1s it not that China has taken about 10 years to clinch

such a deal while PM wants to do it in 3 years?

Is it not that by the present indications, 50% of the members of this august House are opposing the nuclear deal in its present form? Is it necessary to push such a deal

dividing the nation vertically? Sir, this house is concerned about these issues. UPA Government has miserably failed in controlling prices of essential commodities.

Inflation has reached the 13 year record and there are no indications of any decline. Steel and cement cartels have increased prices substantially and this

Government. Has become a mute witness? Strangely, the Government is taking the argument that price increase is due to global factors and the Government has not

control over them. If it is so, the increase in economic growth also must be due to global factors and the credit should not go to PM or the Government. Farmers are

suffering due to lack of fertilisers, diesel, seeds etc. Food grain production strategy and management is in shambles. Infrastructure sector is in all kinds of problems.

Manufacturing and industrial production is on a declining trend. Power generation is much behind the target. Loan waiver scheme has been announced but

implementation is yet to begin. NREG has become an instrument of corruption.

Sir, I find no single reason for which my party can support this Government. I hence oppose the motion moved by the PM. This Government has no moral or

constitutional authority to be in office any more. Thank you for giving me this opportunity. *

MR. SPEAKER : Hon. Prime Minister may reply now.

……. (Interruptions)

19.20 hrs.
At this stage Shrimati Kiran Maheshwari and some other Hon’ble Members

came and stood on the floor near the Table.

….. (Interruptions)

THE PRIME MINISTER (DR. MANMOHAN SINGH): Mr. Speaker Sir, I thank all the hon. Members who have participated in this important debate during the last few

years.… (Interruptions) At the outset, I would like to express my profound sadness on the extraordinary developments which have taken place in the House today.…

(Interruptions) We are with you on whatever decision you take in accordance with the law of the land.… (Interruptions)

When I look at the composition of the opportunistic groups opposed to us, it is clear to me that the clash today is between two alternative visions of India’s

future. … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: You may lay your speech on the Table of the House.

… (Interruptions)

* DR. MANMOHAN SINGH: The one vision represented by the UPA and our allies seeks to project India as a self-confident and united nation moving forward to gain its

rightful place in the comity of nations, making full use of the opportunities offered by a globalised world, operating on the frontiers of modern science and technology

and using modern science and technology as important instruments of national economic and social development. The opposite vision is of a motley crowd opposed

to us who have come together to share the spoils of office to promote their sectional sectarian and parochial interests. Our Left colleagues should tell us whether Shri

L.K. Advani is acceptable to them as a Prime Ministerial candidate. Shri L.K. Advani should enlighten us if he will step aside as Prime Ministerial candidate of the

opposition in favour of the choice of UNPA. They should take the country into confidence on this important issue.

*…….* This part of the speech was laid on the Table.

The Leader of Opposition, Shri L.K. Advani has chosen to use all manner of abusive objectives to describe my performance. He has described me as the weakest

Prime Minister, a nikamma PM, and of having devalued the office of PM. To fulfill his ambitions, he has made at least three attempts to topple our government. But on

each occasion his astrologers have misled him. This pattern, I am sure, will be repeated today. At his ripe old age, I do not expect Shri Advani to change his thinking.

But for his sake and India’s sake, I urge him at least to change his astrologers so that he gets more accurate predictions of things to come.

As for Shri Advani’s various charges, I do not wish to waste the time of the House in rebutting them. All I can say is that before leveling charges of incompetence on

others, Shri Advani should do some introspection. Can our nation forgive a Home Minister who slept when the terrorists were knocking at the doors of our Parliament?

Can our nation forgive a person who single handedly provided the inspiration for the destruction of the Babri Masjid with all the terrible consequences that followed? To

atone for his sins, he suddenly decided to visit Pakistan and there he discovered new virtues in Mr. Jinnah. Alas, his own party and his mentors in the RSS disowned

him on this issue. Can our nation approve the conduct of a Home Minister who was sleeping while Gujarat was burning leading to the loss of thousands of innocent

lives? Our friends in the Left Front should ponder over the company they are forced to keep because of miscalculations by their General Secretary.

As for my conduct, it is for this august House and the people of India to judge. All I can say is that in all these years that I have been in office, whether as Finance

Minister or Prime Minister, I have felt it as a sacred obligation to use the levers of power as a societal trust to be used for transforming our economy and polity, so that

we can get rid of poverty, ignorance and disease which still afflict millions of our people. This is a long and arduous journey. But every step taken in this direction can

make a difference. And that is what we have sought to do in the last four years. How far we have succeeded is something I leave to the judgement of the people of

India.

I have already stated in my opening remarks that the House has been dragged into this debate unnecessarily. I wish our attention had not been diverted from some

priority areas of national concern. These priorities are :

(i) Tackling the imported inflation caused by steep increase in oil prices. Our effort is to control inflation without hurting the rate of growth and employment.

(ii) To revitalize agriculture. We have decisively reversed the declining trend of investment and resource flow in agriculture. The Finance Minister has dealt with the

measures we have taken in this regard. We have achieved a record foodgrain production of 231 million tones. But we need to redouble our efforts to improve

agricultural productivity.

(iii) To improve the effectiveness of our flagship pro poor programmes such as National Rural Employment Programme, Sarva Shiksha Abhiyan, Nation-wide Mid day

meal programme, Bharat Nirman to improve the quality of rural infrastructure of roads, electricity, safe drinking water, sanitation, irrigation, National Rural Health Mission

and the Jawaharlal Nehru National Urban Renewal Mission. These programmes are yielding solid results. But a great deal more needs to be done to improve the

quality of implementation.

(iv) We have initiated a major thrust in expanding higher education. The objective is to expand the gross enrolment ratio in higher education from 11.6 per cent to 15

per cent by the end of the 11th Plan and to 21% by the end of 12th Plan.

To meet these goals, we have an ambitious programme which seeks to create 30 new universities, of which 14 will be world class, 8 new IITs, 7 new IIMs, 20 new IIITs,

5 new IISERs, 2 Schools of Planning and Architecture, 10 NITs, 373 new degree colleges and 1000 new polytechnics. And these are not just plans. Three new IISERs

are already operational and the remaining two will become operational from the 2008-09 academic session. Two SPAs will be starting this year. Six of the new IITs start

their classes this year. The establishment of the new universities is at an advanced stage of planning.

(v) A nation wide Skill Development Programme and the enactment of the Right to Education Act,

(vi) Approval by Parliament of the new Rehabilitation and Resettlement policy and enactment of legislation to provide social security benefits to workers in the

unorganized sector.

(vii) The new 15 Point Programme for Minorities, the effective implementation of empowerment programmes for the scheduled castes, scheduled tribes, paying

particular emphasis on implementation of Land Rights for the tribals.

(viii) Equally important is the effective implementation of the Right to Informati